The Ethics of using root access to gain control over your device (and your carrier charges)

[Bluce Ree]

Dispite that being slightly stupid, I can't even read T&C's, so how can I judge it's "ethicality"?
If OM missed some fine print, then it is not sprints issue "legally", If they did not cover it in thier T&C's, then you have every right to screw them legally.
Denying someone the ability to check on T&C's, (even JUST a broad overview) is just silly.

Why not just enter a zip code? Pick any one in California, like 90210, which would be relevant to OM1.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Why not just enter a zip code? Pick any one in California, like 90210, which would be relevant to OM1.

Errr, because its "info gathering" before you are even a customer?

Sure I could enter 90210, but this is about *ethics* is it not?

 

[Joelist]

It's not "info gathering" in the sense you may be thinking of.

It just needs the zip code because plans available, phones available and such change by geography. For example if you are not in an area Sprint covers they cannot offer you plans.

 

[Gatefan1976]

It's not "info gathering" in the sense you may be thinking of.

Err, yes it is. It's info gathering to determine where shop-fronts should be built.

It just needs the zip code because plans available, phones available and such change by geography. For example if you are not in an area Sprint covers they cannot offer you plans.

Right, so Sprint offers different plans based on your zip code??
ROFLMFAO!!!
We are not talking access, nor avaliability, we are talking thier basic business strategy here.

 

[Joelist]

Not really GF. This is standard not only on cellular carriers but a lot of other businesses over here. Basically any business that has a defined service area will want to know if you are in the area first and also generally where as it determines the product offerings.

For example, in my industry a person in Illinois (my state) will see a different product selection than one in California where Overmind lives.

 

[Joelist]

And here is an example of a location outside the service area:

 

[Gatefan1976]

Not really GF. This is standard not only on cellular carriers but a lot of other businesses over here. Basically any business that has a defined service area will want to know if you are in the area first and also generally where as it determines the product offerings.
[/qoute]
Then you are getting shafted. Sorry, there is no other way to put it. Anywhere across the US or Aus for that matter a *corperation* should have the same T&C's (note I am avoiding cost, because "acceptable cost" may indeed be dependant on location, that just a function of charging what the market can bear.)

For example, in my industry a person in Illinois (my state) will see a different product selection than one in California where Overmind lives.

Yes, the Chi town product listing may be different, and sorta expected, but I am talking *specifically* T's&C's, and they should be totally tansperent in nature. If you are connected to sprint, and OM is connected to sprint, then the generic T's&C's should be universal no matter where you live. If they ARE based on location, I would argue that you have a case for descrimination based on location.

 

[Gatefan1976]

STILL CANNOT DAMN EDIT

 

[Gatefan1976]

And here is an example of a location outside the service area:

View attachment 7509

This says jack shit about company T's & C's, it's about becoming a customer. Forgive me, but I WANT to know T&C BEFORE I sign jack.

 

[Joelist]

And you will. Put in a zipcode and you will see the T&C along with everything else. There can be differences in the T&C from one state to another because some states have regulations that the company must comply with to do business in that state.

For non state-specific T&C just go here:

http://www.sprint.com/legal/index.html?INTNAV=ATG:FT:Legal

 

[Gatefan1976]

Having read through what you provided (cheers dude!) and exploring a few links, my answer to OM's original question is, Stuff them. They have no overt protection for hotspots, nor ANYTHING to do with how you use them, or thier "ex equipment". If they choose not to make thier T&C's "public domain" like a DVD or Audio CD, they deserve no expectation of behavior "better" from thier customers.


OM had a "moral dilemma" because he felt that as an individual he should hold himself to a "higher standard" and most of the time, I would agree, personal integity counts for a great deal, but with dealing with a system that has none, then I feel he should not be beholden to that greater integrity *when the other party merely wishes to abuse it*

Frack/Frell them IMHO.

 

[Overmind One]

Be careful Overmind - your phone may not be that easy to activate on another carrier. That phone is CDMA and uses WiMAX for its network access. Aside from Sprint the only other national carrier using CDMA is Verizon, and they have no WiMAX - they use LTE. There are a bunch of smaller CDMA carriers like US Cellular but again you'll run into trouble with your WiMAX network connection - basically nobody new is adopting WiMAX and even Sprint will be dropping it over time for LTE.

You and Bluce seem to be thinking that I am on the wrong side of the fence here, and should be hiding my hotspot usage. Actually, it is Sprint who is in the Darth Vader costume. Android was designed from the beginning with tethering built in. No carrier was supposed to be charging for it, and in Europe and other places, they don't. Not only that, but when I signed up there was no hotspot plan. They always had tiered plans for phone and texts and even data. But they did not differentiate between data and tethered data (as it should be). The hotspot tether is not an extra service, it is a BUILT IN extension of the device.

I am not worried about being booted from Sprint. I am a longtime business customer and I have a high review rating with them. I had hotspot before they even offered it.

 

[Overmind One]

Having read through what you provided (cheers dude!) and exploring a few links, my answer to OM's original question is, Stuff them. They have no overt protection for hotspots, nor ANYTHING to do with how you use them, or thier "ex equipment". If they choose not to make thier T&C's "public domain" like a DVD or Audio CD, they deserve no expectation of behavior "better" from thier customers.


OM had a "moral dilemma" because he felt that as an individual he should hold himself to a "higher standard" and most of the time, I would agree, personal integity counts for a great deal, but with dealing with a system that has none, then I feel he should not be beholden to that greater integrity *when the other party merely wishes to abuse it*

Frack/Frell them IMHO.

You nailed it. My moral dilemma became null when I began studying the behavior of my carrier. They are finding ways to maximize their profits at my expense, but not at added service levels. Where is LTE? Why am I paying for "premium data" when it does not cover where I live? Why are they specifically using the word UNLIMITED and concentrating on that aspect of the plan when it is not unlimited? So, you are right...frak them. This posted using my hotspot which was "canceled" a day ago.

 

[Overmind One]

STILL CANNOT DAMN EDIT

Its easiest to do it in Chrome. I am having the edit problem as well.

 

[Overmind One]

Be careful Overmind - your phone may not be that easy to activate on another carrier. That phone is CDMA and uses WiMAX for its network access. Aside from Sprint the only other national carrier using CDMA is Verizon, and they have no WiMAX - they use LTE. There are a bunch of smaller CDMA carriers like US Cellular but again you'll run into trouble with your WiMAX network connection - basically nobody new is adopting WiMAX and even Sprint will be dropping it over time for LTE.

My phone already supports LTE. I would most likely move to T-Mobile. I could easily sell my phone to a CDMA user.

 

[Overmind One]

This is already an issue with many longtime Sprint customers:

http://www.techdirt.com/blog/wirele...e-still-advertising-unlimited-broadband.shtml

The issue is that Sprint did offer unlimited data (regardless of hotspot) and now they dont. This is a material change to their contract and they should allow customers to leave without an ETF.

 

[Joelist]

My phone already supports LTE. I would most likely move to T-Mobile. I could easily sell my phone to a CDMA user.

I thought you said your phone is a Galaxy S2 Epic 4G. That is what I looked up and it said it uses WiMax. In any event Sprint phones are also CDMA and T-Mobile is GSM.

 

[Bluce Ree]

Err, yes it is. It's info gathering to determine where shop-fronts should be built.


Right, so Sprint offers different plans based on your zip code??
ROFLMFAO!!!
We are not talking access, nor avaliability, we are talking thier basic business strategy here.

Dude, if you read my original reply to you, there are some conditions that may differ state to state due to state laws.

 

[Bluce Ree]

You and Bluce seem to be thinking that I am on the wrong side of the fence here, and should be hiding my hotspot usage. Actually, it is Sprint who is in the Darth Vader costume. Android was designed from the beginning with tethering built in. No carrier was supposed to be charging for it, and in Europe and other places, they don't. Not only that, but when I signed up there was no hotspot plan. They always had tiered plans for phone and texts and even data. But they did not differentiate between data and tethered data (as it should be). The hotspot tether is not an extra service, it is a BUILT IN extension of the device.

I am not worried about being booted from Sprint. I am a longtime business customer and I have a high review rating with them. I had hotspot before they even offered it.

Dude, sometimes I dunno if you're high when you read my posts but I didn't imply you're in the wrong. I gave you a workaround in case they decide to screw with you or change their policy.

There's no mystery or magic. All phones with built-in hotspots can tether. Hotspot is not a "service" per se. It is language in the agreement that allows them a means to control bandwidth overuse. Smart phone users aren't bandwidth hogs in the same manner as users who tether their PCs, laptops or tablets.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just telling you how the wireless carriers defend their bullshit charges and try to prevent overloading existing networks. If Sprint finds its network being bogged down by heavy data usage, they will start throttling traffic in some manner then announce some change to their policy, as the other carriers have done.

AT&T is the biggest offender. They have no clearly written policy regarding their throttling. They can and have throttled users at arbitrary usage, which is one of the many reasons why AT&T is so hated. T-Mobile is unlimited but their T&C clearly states they throttle (not limit) at 5 Gbits and hotspot sharing is an extra charge. Verizon also defines the throttling point and hotspot usage.

 

[Bluce Ree]

My phone already supports LTE. I would most likely move to T-Mobile. I could easily sell my phone to a CDMA user.

T-Mobile doesn't have LTE yet. They have HSPA+, aka 3.5G, but they're on the AWS spectrum (aka UMTS Band IV). Sprint, AFAIK, is rolling out their 4G LTE on the 800 Mhz iDEN spectrum. In terms of hardware, most, if not all, modern mobile phones are equipped with everything necessary to be on all bands. However, these are activated by baseband firmware that is neither publicly available nor can be flashed without special software/hardware. There is a whole discussion in Crackberry on this subject dealing with the Bold 9900, which an engineer at RIM confirmed that bands are activated via firmware but is currently an impossibility for the general public.

The Samsung Galaxy S3 is another prime example. It supports ALL bands in hardware but it is currently impossible to flash the radio.

So, even though your phone may be equipped with a SIM slot, that entire functionality may be disabled and the radio locked to Sprint's spectrum. These are not features available via rooting, either.