SGA

[YJ02]

So, now on Atlantis. again

Just finished S1. and into ep 1 S2.

Anyone notice it takes then fewer rounds to kill a wraith in S2 then in S1?

And in "siege part3" the darts of the first wraith attack make a "kamikaze dive" against the city-trying to destroy it with their ballistic descent. Of course they pop like bugs on a windshield with the shield up. So, at the beginning of this ep-the wraith want to DESTROY the city..by the end of the ep, when the next wave of 10 hive ships appear, they now suddenly want to preserve the city. so much so that they fall for Teyla's "jedi mind trick" and stop bombing the shield because she told them they were going to self destroy the Atl. So---do the wraith want to take it or destroy it? I feel the writers couldn't decide even though the viewers had

Anyone else think that Col Caldwell was already a Goa'uld at this point? As I remember, it was never said when he was implanted-and with all of his time either in hyperspace to and from Pegasus or on station above Atl, when would the trust of had time to implant him if he had not been implanted already?

What are your thoughts on the ATL?

 

[shavedape]

Are you talking about when Earth had reestablished contact with Atlantis and was sending supply ships back and forth every couple weeks or whatever? To be honest I was sort of pulled out of the story at that point because it lost a lot of it's edge. The whole point was that they were supposed to be cut off from any sort of help and the fact that the writers so quickly "fixed" that was pretty annoying.

I didn't give a hard turd about most of those episodes to be honest. To me the Goa'uld were an SG-1 thing and it was lame of the writers to try and shoehorn them into SGA. The Wraith thing hadn't even been fully explored at that point yet here they were trying to cram tired old enemies into the story because the writers were already out of ideas. And don't even get me going about the Replicator bullshit they did on SGA. Talk about some lazy ass writing. Shit, they were in an completely different galaxy and yet the writers couldn't come up with new enemies and situations for the SGA crew to deal with. That is so weak.

 

[YJ02]

Are you talking about when Earth had reestablished contact with Atlantis and was sending supply ships back and forth every couple weeks or whatever? To be honest I was sort of pulled out of the story at that point because it lost a lot of it's edge. The whole point was that they were supposed to be cut off from any sort of help and the fact that the writers so quickly "fixed" that was pretty annoying.

I didn't give a hard turd about most of those episodes to be honest. To me the Goa'uld were an SG-1 thing and it was lame of the writers to try and shoehorn them into SGA. The Wraith thing hadn't even been fully explored at that point yet here they were trying to cram tired old enemies into the story because the writers were already out of ideas. And don't even get me going about the Replicator bullshit they did on SGA. Talk about some lazy ass writing. Shit, they were in an completely different galaxy and yet the writers couldn't come up with new enemies and situations for the SGA crew to deal with. That is so weak.

with ya on the weakness--as in, resorting to old formula's so soon

I don't think Caldwell was revealed to have a snake in his head till much later. it was just his ambition to be in charge of more--trying to impose on the atlantis command his will, trying to be the atlantis cdr, and implementing new protocols when Sheppard was out of action for awhile

I think they could have done a lot more with -oh say, the "travellers" and their ambitions. would of liked to see some play with more of the wraith disunity thing, etc

But yes, here i am talking about s2 ep1, the daedulus makes it to pegasus becuase it is using asgard intergalactic travel tech AND is powered by the zpm that was (now) found in egypt after that alternate timeline sg1 team travelled to ancient egypt.

 

[YJ02]

Marines with berets? Funny, I don't think there is one member of the USMC alive who would be caught wearing a beret. Clearly, any military adviser they may have had on set knew little.

Even the army hates them, ppl wear their "soft cap" whenever possible. Even the groups who once were the only ones to wear berets (green berets, airborne, rangers) disliked them, but they wore them because it was a disliked the earned. Now everyone in the army wears a beret-it was a very unpopular and needless decision.

Again, I am thinking that Caldwell was a Goa'uld the whole time. Especially given his Goa'uld like crassness in the episodes of "intruder" and "runner".

 

[ParagonPie]

Funny that you mention the Wraith darts going into a dive bomb against the shield because you know, its not like they could of just fly around the city shield shooting at it until they dropped.

Also about the beret's the guys don't even have cap badges to represent what regiment or corp they are part of, its just simply blank and shaped poorly so it looks like they are stealing dinner plates.
With SGA they went more away from the military instead just relying on generic terms like 'marines' even though its a multi national force. I've said this before in the past but the people who do the prop's for the 'soldiers' simply went down into the local army and navy store bought some vests and camo gear without actually looking at the current generation forces equipment and loadout. However the military adviser they had before (In SG1) was part of the USAF media relations team if I remember correctly. Keep in mind, they could have all the advisors they want, but can easily ignore them. Remember when they said they gave the SGU scripts to members of the USAF and USMC for review and advice, yeah that went down well didn't it?

As for my opinions on the Wraith, oh boy. Goa'uld 2.0 only non of a fashion sense. For a race that supposedly needs humans to survive they sure as hell go out of the way to destroy as many people as possible, its like us napalming half the cattle herd then slaughtering the rest for beef, not very efficient and incredibly counter productive to their overall survival.

The Atero(?) device was possibly the best weapon ever created to destroy the Wraith if one knew how to use it correctly. Firstly who controls the gate network? Oh the Ancients. Do they have the ability to turn them off using a virus to infect the gate network? Humans on Earth have done it, so don't see why THE FRAKING GATE BUILDERS can't do it. Oh so, lets see, the Ancients turn off all the gates, and turn on the Atero device. Holy bum box I've solved the war!

 

[YJ02]

Funny that you mention the Wraith darts going into a dive bomb against the shield because you know, its not like they could of just fly around the city shield shooting at it until they dropped.

Also about the beret's the guys don't even have cap badges to represent what regiment or corp they are part of, its just simply blank and shaped poorly so it looks like they are stealing dinner plates.
With SGA they went more away from the military instead just relying on generic terms like 'marines' even though its a multi national force. I've said this before in the past but the people who do the prop's for the 'soldiers' simply went down into the local army and navy store bought some vests and camo gear without actually looking at the current generation forces equipment and loadout. However the military adviser they had before (In SG1) was part of the USAF media relations team if I remember correctly. Keep in mind, they could have all the advisors they want, but can easily ignore them. Remember when they said they gave the SGU scripts to members of the USAF and USMC for review and advice, yeah that went down well didn't it?

As for my opinions on the Wraith, oh boy. Goa'uld 2.0 only non of a fashion sense. For a race that supposedly needs humans to survive they sure as hell go out of the way to destroy as many people as possible, its like us napalming half the cattle herd then slaughtering the rest for beef, not very efficient and incredibly counter productive to their overall survival.

The Atero(?) device was possibly the best weapon ever created to destroy the Wraith if one knew how to use it correctly. Firstly who controls the gate network? Oh the Ancients. Do they have the ability to turn them off using a virus to infect the gate network? Humans on Earth have done it, so don't see why THE FRAKING GATE BUILDERS can't do it. Oh so, lets see, the Ancients turn off all the gates, and turn on the Atero device. Holy bum box I've solved the war!

yes the way TPTB made things--"square peg,round hole"--fit was interesting in and of itself. Guess the same can be said for all shows to a certain extent.

the USMC doesn't even wear unit shoulder sleeve insignia and didn't even wear name tapes on their bdu blouses for some time. the "marines" in sga are not marines, at least in sg1 and in "rising" they were in actual marine uniform (updt for iraq/a-stan uni changes='digital camo')

I noticed in the ep "duet" and "runner" we also see ppl in authentic looking us army uniform with digi camo pattern.

You know with the ancients not figuring things out as you say...IMO if you could ask TPTB that same thing they would fall back on the convenient "out" they gave themselves in "ark of truth". they didn't use the ark on the ori because they wanted to leave things to free will. i am sure they would use a similar explanation for not turning of the pegasus gate system as well.

imo the design and attitude off the wraith were influenced by whichever TPTB was responsible for them and his/hers being influenced by current pop culture (marilyn manson, death metal, "goths", etc) and of course the omni present vampire theme

 

[Atlantis]

After seeing SGA again I still would rate considerably higher than the crappy SGU stuff. I really miss SGA and Stargate and yes the finale was rushed.

 

[Jim of WVa]

Marines with berets? Funny, I don't think there is one member of the USMC alive who would be caught wearing a beret. Clearly, any military adviser they may have had on set knew little.

Even the army hates them, ppl wear their "soft cap" whenever possible. Even the groups who once were the only ones to wear berets (green berets, airborne, rangers) disliked them, but they wore them because it was a disliked the earned. Now everyone in the army wears a beret-it was a very unpopular and needless decision.
...

Don't forget Raspberry Berets...

 

[YJ02]

After seeing SGA again I still would rate considerably higher than the crappy SGU stuff. I really miss SGA and Stargate and yes the finale was rushed.

yes despite my quips and cuts on sga (and sg1) I still very much enjoy both abd I still find sga to be my favorite along with seasons 3-6-ish of sg1
--- merged: Feb 8, 2013 at 12:13 AM ---

Don't forget Raspberry Berets...

If you mean in sga, the had the "marines" change out of them..in "siege" they had raspberry berets in later eps there in black ones

as to real world..yes the 82nd and other airborne units had the Prince song applied to them in various forms...

 

[ParagonPie]

In Rising the marines (ones that were actually USMC, since Lt. Ford and Col. 'Only hired for the pilot episodes' Summer was wearing it) had the MARPAT uniform whereas the multi national force had the grey bdu (which everyone quickly changed to). For what the other guys had (ones who came through the gate in The Siege part 2), I thought that was more urban digital camo, since the Army ACU is more grey and brown.

Ah ha here we go!

http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/zocalo/sga_2x01/sga-2x01-031.jpg

(Edit: Had to only give a hot link since the picture was too large)

compared too ACU

Yes I am that much of a nitpicker! :3

 

[Atlantis]

yes despite my quips and cuts on sga (and sg1) I still very much enjoy both abd I still find sga to be my favorite along with seasons 3-6-ish of sg1
--- merged: Feb 8, 2013 at 12:13 AM ---

If you mean in sga, the had the "marines" change out of them..in "siege" they had raspberry berets in later eps there in black ones

as to real world..yes the 82nd and other airborne units had the Prince song applied to them in various forms...

I didn't mind the latter seasons of SG-1 but I did miss O'Neil for SG-1.I would have liked him to appear more and do more of the things he used to do. SGA was somewhat similar to SG-1 in some aspect and they both could be gelled together quite well. SGU had poor writing, acting and dialogue and it wasn't stargate because it was more about survival and drama crap rather than adventure and sci-fi.

What pisses me off is that the SGU fans think SGA was a children's show.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Don't forget Raspberry Berets...

Did not think you would be a Prince fan dude

 

[YJ02]

In Rising the marines (ones that were actually USMC, since Lt. Ford and Col. 'Only hired for the pilot episodes' Summer was wearing it) had the MARPAT uniform whereas the multi national force had the grey bdu (which everyone quickly changed to). For what the other guys had (ones who came through the gate in The Siege part 2), I thought that was more urban digital camo, since the Army ACU is more grey and brown.

Ah ha here we go!

http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/zocalo/sga_2x01/sga-2x01-031.jpg

(Edit: Had to only give a hot link since the picture was too large)

compared too ACU

Yes I am that much of a nitpicker! :3

Yes..i have a pretty good idea of what it all looks like. I was in the army for twenty years. I didn't have to switch to the new acu (pictured) since the BDU had a 2 or 3 yr wear out date. And since I didn't deploy to the current "festivities" I was never issued any.

If you look in the background (just extras running around-no specific character) you can see people wearing the ACU that you pictured with soft (patrol) caps. If you go back to some sg1 eps you can see background characters in acu's as well (the ep wear Ba'al flys to Earth in a cargo ship and gets shot down is one wear the medics on scene are apparently Army ones)

The "urban" camo is just nothing official. The closet thing it reminds me of is the Navy's new camo. They even wear it onboard ship--don't really get that part--it is a digi pattern in blueish grey. The army has yet again changed, the acu is phasing out and the army is wearing a "greenish-brown: digi pattern.
--- merged: Feb 8, 2013 at 5:15 AM ---

I didn't mind the latter seasons of SG-1 but I did miss O'Neil for SG-1.I would have liked him to appear more and do more of the things he used to do. SGA was somewhat similar to SG-1 in some aspect and they both could be gelled together quite well. SGU had poor writing, acting and dialogue and it wasn't stargate because it was more about survival and drama crap rather than adventure and sci-fi.

What pisses me off is that the SGU fans think SGA was a children's show.

I believe that the SGU fans who feel that SGA is a children's show are those ppl who never watched SG1 or SGA except in passing--I used to be like that-the only eps I would catch would be on "sci fi friday". I would catch an ep or 2 or just the last 15min's while waiting for bsg to start, and earlier too I think sg1 came on before farscape at one point didn't it?

I know when sg1 was in that "king arthur/merlin" arc i would catch parts of it and wonder "really? they are going there?" of course i knew nothing of the plot lines overall but would also think that seeing people travelling on interstellar craft and using energy weapons while wearing ancient/medieval type clothing/armor (ori soldiers) was a bit "cartoonish". I still think they could have came up with something better for the Ori soldiers. I mean how is it that our "backwater" planet of Earth-and a few others places, are supposedly so far behind cultures that wear animal skins (early Tokra eps) and Steel helmets with nose guards (ori)?

 

[ParagonPie]

It is quite interesting that there isn't a standard camouflage pattern for the SGC, instead we get a mixture of patterns from marines, army and air force along with one tone bdu's. Then again same applies with the weapons they use just wasn't really consistency in that regard.

Back to my thoughts with Atlantis. Generally speaking I found the stories to be way to similar to SG1, especially when it became village of the week. The most insulting episode was perhaps Condemned when they outright chastised the humans for making a pack with the Wraith so they could carry on technologically, then a few episodes down the line the Atlantis crew formed an Alliance with the Wraith. Yeah good job there hypocrites. Also have you noticed usually whenever they meet another technologically advanced race it is either dead or becomes an enemy in some form? Humans on Condemned, now wiped out. Asgard again another stupid entry, chastised for having the dare and boldness to continue on existing I mean really? How dare you! Instead of forging an alliance or brokering another deal (hint hint Dr Weir!!!!!) no we have to execute them. Isn't the whole purpose of the Atlantis crew to find technologically advanced races in support against the Wraith? Only ones they did find were the travelers and look how close they became the enemy.

I think the problem is that it suffered from 'the main characters are always right' stuff, not taking into consideration that they have been oppressed for centuries and probably had to of done horrible things to survive, its easy to sit back and be all judgmental, but the humans of Earth haven't had their ass kicked truly.
I'll use another Sci-fi as an example, look how much the Federation changed after the Borg attack. They realized you can't play nice to someone who flat out denies an audience or dialogue. In other words, in Stargate I wish Earth got attacked and wrecked, slapping the humans out of that world of presumption they so comfortably lived in.

 

[YJ02]

It is quite interesting that there isn't a standard camouflage pattern for the SGC, instead we get a mixture of patterns from marines, army and air force along with one tone bdu's. Then again same applies with the weapons they use just wasn't really consistency in that regard.

Back to my thoughts with Atlantis. Generally speaking I found the stories to be way to similar to SG1, especially when it became village of the week. The most insulting episode was perhaps Condemned when they outright chastised the humans for making a pack with the Wraith so they could carry on technologically, then a few episodes down the line the Atlantis crew formed an Alliance with the Wraith. Yeah good job there hypocrites. Also have you noticed usually whenever they meet another technologically advanced race it is either dead or becomes an enemy in some form? Humans on Condemned, now wiped out. Asgard again another stupid entry, chastised for having the dare and boldness to continue on existing I mean really? How dare you! Instead of forging an alliance or brokering another deal (hint hint Dr Weir!!!!!) no we have to execute them. Isn't the whole purpose of the Atlantis crew to find technologically advanced races in support against the Wraith? Only ones they did find were the travelers and look how close they became the enemy.

I think the problem is that it suffered from 'the main characters are always right' stuff, not taking into consideration that they have been oppressed for centuries and probably had to of done horrible things to survive, its easy to sit back and be all judgmental, but the humans of Earth haven't had their ass kicked truly.
I'll use another Sci-fi as an example, look how much the Federation changed after the Borg attack. They realized you can't play nice to someone who flat out denies an audience or dialogue. In other words, in Stargate I wish Earth got attacked and wrecked, slapping the humans out of that world of presumption they so comfortably lived in.

The "let's find people and make them friends on our terms" went on in sg1 as well. they had some decent exceptions though (the Tollan for ex). They would go around "we are making alliances to fight the goa'uld/ori" but then we didn't see them call on the alliances save for the Tok Ra and Jaffa. The Hebridians (sp?) ("SPACE RACE") seemed very advanced, we know they had the power to defeat the goa'uld long ago. Why were they not called on to fight against the Goa'uld and esp the Ori? Or for that matter, assist with the Pegasus galaxy? Or help look for Destiny? They make these uber powerful (for the moment) races and let them go away without mention.

The other issue with "CONDEMNED" was that in the ep before and after we here said "we can't let the wraith see us or our cover is blown". But in "CONDEMNED" the wraith saw them. Surely those wraith attend all the wraith conventions and would have informed the others. And the ship was just a small cruiser (that went to the city after the prisoners were gone), these ppl had ships better then the puddle jumpers--which can destroy or severely damage wraith ships--why didn't their ships defend them against the one wraith cruiser? Holes in the writing/continuity issues IMO

And the weapons thing..the only weapons that they use in the shows that are standard use by US military are the M16/M4, M249 SAW and the M60 and .50cal (and 9mm). The P90 and the other 'exotic' weapons are not used --save by maybe some spec ops units. Just more flash and glitz to get views.

SG1/SGA the biggest advertisement for guns on TV...

 

[ParagonPie]

I was going to mention that in SG1, I sort of forgave it. Then it was repeated in SGA.

For the weapons it was for the most part a 'it looks cool' though the personnel within the SGC are special forces of some description so gaining access to exotic weaponry isn't a problem. My problem is that there is no actual role for the people within each fireteam. Currently in a British infantry fire team there, Combat shotgun, Rifle with UGL, Minimi (LMG) and Sharp Shooter rifle. Compare that to the SGA teams and you'll easily realize how imbalanced they are for combat roles. All what it would take is the Wraith to engage at 100 meters and their P90's become useless. Luckily the Wraith foot soldiers are about as effective at stopping the Earthling as a Fishnet condom prevents pregnancy.

But yeah looking at the behind the scenes stuff, there was a lot of 'Yeah that looks cool' running around amongst the producers. You don't have soldiers running around with different weapon systems >.< pick one and stick with it!

 

[YJ02]

In "aurora" is it me or are the ancients particularly stupid and "unancient" like? If they have healing powers through thought and touch then one would think they would be able to perceive that Sheppard was telling the truth:

"Hmm lets see, you just appeared on my ship, you are not a member of my crew, your not a wraith but I totally don't believe your story"

In "Critical Mass"-with Atlantis is going to blow up if we dial Earth. I always liked the crossover eps, keeps things in perspective between the 2 shows storylines. (Other shows have done this as well though not as noticeable. I liked how the TPTB of all the shows made Xfiles, Millennium and even Law and Order (both orig and SVU) and "Homicide;Life on the Street" a part of the same "universe" by having characters cross over)

The Goa'uld wanting to destroy Atlantis to stop a Wraith incursion is a plot line I enjoyed. it would have been better if they would have included Ba'al in a shot (show him on Earth meeting with his trust operative Athena) discussing their plan.

Seems that whoever came up with this good idea helped come up with the bad ideas in SGU (showing the SGC none of us recognize, use of ONeill, Carter, Jackson and McKay,etc). The methods seem similar.

 

[Jim of WVa]

I was going to mention that in SG1, I sort of forgave it. Then it was repeated in SGA.

For the weapons it was for the most part a 'it looks cool' though the personnel within the SGC are special forces of some description so gaining access to exotic weaponry isn't a problem. My problem is that there is no actual role for the people within each fireteam. Currently in a British infantry fire team there, Combat shotgun, Rifle with UGL, Minimi (LMG) and Sharp Shooter rifle. Compare that to the SGA teams and you'll easily realize how imbalanced they are for combat roles. All what it would take is the Wraith to engage at 100 meters and their P90's become useless. Luckily the Wraith foot soldiers are about as effective at stopping the Earthling as a Fishnet condom prevents pregnancy.

But yeah looking at the behind the scenes stuff, there was a lot of 'Yeah that looks cool' running around amongst the producers. You don't have soldiers running around with different weapon systems >.< pick one and stick with it!

Apparently showing an enemy engaging at 100+ meters was beyond the capability of the SG-1/SGA/SGU producers.

 

[YJ02]

Apparently showing an enemy engaging at 100+ meters was beyond the capability of the SG-1/SGA/SGU producers.

With everything apparently at the SGC's disposal, why didn't we see more use of mortars and other heavy weapons?

 

[ParagonPie]

Despite a lot of my gripes within the show I will say there were a good few episodes which I did enjoy. Critical Mass as said before but also Trinity, showed the good play off between Rodney and Shepard while the Teala and Ronan wasn't bad but just felt off because it was separate from the primary plot. Then again it was in SG1 when the whole 'each episode must have an A and B plot' when the show worked perfectly fine previously. In Season 1 the episode 'Before I sleep' I thought was pulled off well, and probably the only time Dr Weir was the central character (Other than perhaps the Real World episode) in the entire seasons she was in. Also in Season 2, Intruder was another good episode. Aurora though I did enjoy, but yeah the so called ancient powers are sporadic like X Men genetic mutations it just randomly happens. It was something that I didn't agree on at all, was making the Ancients simply superior (when the plot says so) humans coupled with Jedi abilities. Obviously I would of preferred if the Ancients were Alien in some phsyical aspect, but from a budget stand point well that one takes precedent I guess.

But yeah the Ancients that we saw in Aurora and more specifically in the episode 'The Return' showed off how well, arrogant and inflexible they actually were. Also them just simply ousting the Atlantis crew was stupid, Ok it has been 10'000 years, but they would of known that everything and one they loved would of been lost. Stop moping around and help them God Dam it, you're the god damn gate builders for crying out loud, you made technology which lasts millions of years but no going to throw the teddy out of the pram and sulk in the corner. Then they died off camera but hey guys we got a new ZPM because we used up the other one, handy that! I hate when they do that.