Police officer pepper-sprays students at UC Davis

[Illiterati]

Yes, but that is only because the corporations now own all law enforcement by proxy. Corporate money in the form of development fees and property taxes and sales taxes own the LAPD and ths State Supreme Court. But enough individual cops have families and friends here and many have been laid off over the past 10 years. At some point, we will have law enforcement sympathizers like during Civil Rights era.

I think that's one of the reasons why the LA cops have been the way they have about the whole thing. I think that most of us know at least one person/family who have been affected by this whole thing. I think that in a lot of cases, that tempers the reaction.

It's all well and good and easy to just scream "get a job!" when you're employed or are living comfortably on a pension. You really have no idea what these people are going through. It's another thing entirely when you know someone in the midst of the whole thing.

I say that knowing a woman who is 60 years old, who was employed her entire working life until about three years ago, when the law firm for whom she worked downsized and she was replaced by a younger and cheaper model (in the Los Angeles area at that time, Law Librarians were making in the neighborhood of 25 bucks an hour for their services). She has been unable to find steady work at all since then, and instead has been working the VERY occasional temp job.

She lost her apartment 2.5 months ago. She will lose the stuff in her storage room on Wednesday, as she can't come up with the 600 bucks she is in arrears to reclaim it and her car insurance has been expired for over a month now. Selling her car would be stupid, as it is 1. paid off 2. potentially a place to sleep and 3. only worth a couple hundred bucks, so once that money was gone, she's still be up sheep crick without a paddle.

And before anyone gets snarky and suggests that I take her in, she lived with us for those 2.5 months since she lost her place, but my apartment manager's largesse and compassion go only so far where guests are concerned (the law in CA is that after 30 days, someone is considered to be a tenant, and thus, more rent can be charged, which we cannot afford to pay in the first place). Now she's trying to survive in a homeless shelter while she continues to try to find work. The places she's staying at are practically warehouses which expect residents to be up and out by 5:30am, when at this time of the year, it's still dark outside. For at least two blocks in either direction, there are constant drug deals going on, and the reek of urine is all over the place. For those of you who understand the reference, she likened it to Bedlam, the old English lunatic asylum.

She's got no kids and is too "young" to be helped by social security. She has no substance abuse issues and isn't considered to have mental health problems (severe depression doesn't count, I guess). She is basically screwed.

It's like having your grandmother living in a homeless shelter. She is a lovely woman who, when things weren't bad, would give you the shirt off her back if you were having problems. She is kind, sweet, helpful and has one of the biggest hearts I've ever known. We've given her nearly $2000 in financial help that we know we likely will never see again, but then, you should never give money with the idea that you'll get it back. If you cannot afford it, don't do it at all. (No, we didn't hand her cash. That's not our thing at all.)

It breaks my heart to know that she's in this position.

 

[Bluce Ree]

I think that's one of the reasons why the LA cops have been the way they have about the whole thing. I think that most of us know at least one person/family who have been affected by this whole thing. I think that in a lot of cases, that tempers the reaction.

it's all well and good and easy to just scream "get a job!" when you're employed or are living comfortably on a pension. You really have no idea what these people are going through. It's another thing entirely when you know someone in the midst of the whole thing.

I say that knowing a woman who is 60 years old, who was employed her entire working life until about three years ago, when the law firm for whom she worked downsized and she was replaced by a younger and cheaper model (in the Los Angeles area at that time, Law Librarians were making in the neighborhood of 25 bucks an hour for their services). She has been unable to find steady work at all since then, and instead has been working the VERY occasional temp job.

She lost her apartment 2.5 months ago. She will lose the stuff in her storage room on Wednesday, as she can't come up with the 600 bucks she is in arrears to reclaim it and her car insurance has been expired for over a month now. Selling her car would be stupid, as it is 1. paid off 2. potentially a place to sleep and 3. only worth a couple hundred bucks, so once that money was gone, she's still be up sheep crick without a paddle.

And before anyone gets snarky and suggests that I take her in, she lived with us for those 2.5 months since she lost her place, but my apartment manager's largesse and compassion go only so far where guests are concerned (the law in CA is that after 30 days, someone is considered to be a tenant, and thus, more rent can be charged, which we cannot afford to pay in the first place). Now she's trying to survive in a homeless shelter while she continues to try to find work. The places she's staying at are practically warehouses which expect residents to be up and out by 5:30am, when at this time of the year, it's still dark outside. For at least two blocks in either direction, there are constant drug deals going on, and the reek of urine is all over the place. For those of you who understand the reference, she likened it to Bedlam, the old English lunatic asyum.S

he's got no kids and is too "young" to be helped by social security. She has no substance abuse issues and isn't considered to have mental health problems (severe depression doesn't count, I guess). She basically screwed.

It's like having your grandmother living in a homeless shelter. She is a lovely woman who, when things weren't bad, would give you the shirt off her back if you were having problems. She is kind, sweet, helpful and has one of the biggest hearts I've ever known. We've given her nearly $2000 in financial help that we know we likely will never see again, but then, you should never give money with the idea that you'll get it back. If you cannot afford it, don't do it at all. (No, we didn't hand her cash. That's not our thing at all.)

It breaks my heart to know that she's in this position.

You're absolutely right. Unless you're in that position yourself or know someone who is, it's difficult to fully understand and appreciate the situation. Being unemployed is not always so black & white.

 

[Rac80]

I think that's one of the reasons why the LA cops have been the way they have about the whole thing. I think that most of us know at least one person/family who have been affected by this whole thing. I think that in a lot of cases, that tempers the reaction.

It's all well and good and easy to just scream "get a job!" when you're employed or are living comfortably on a pension. You really have no idea what these people are going through. It's another thing entirely when you know someone in the midst of the whole thing.

I say that knowing a woman who is 60 years old, who was employed her entire working life until about three years ago, when the law firm for whom she worked downsized and she was replaced by a younger and cheaper model (in the Los Angeles area at that time, Law Librarians were making in the neighborhood of 25 bucks an hour for their services). She has been unable to find steady work at all since then, and instead has been working the VERY occasional temp job.

She lost her apartment 2.5 months ago. She will lose the stuff in her storage room on Wednesday, as she can't come up with the 600 bucks she is in arrears to reclaim it and her car insurance has been expired for over a month now. Selling her car would be stupid, as it is 1. paid off 2. potentially a place to sleep and 3. only worth a couple hundred bucks, so once that money was gone, she's still be up sheep crick without a paddle.

And before anyone gets snarky and suggests that I take her in, she lived with us for those 2.5 months since she lost her place, but my apartment manager's largesse and compassion go only so far where guests are concerned (the law in CA is that after 30 days, someone is considered to be a tenant, and thus, more rent can be charged, which we cannot afford to pay in the first place). Now she's trying to survive in a homeless shelter while she continues to try to find work. The places she's staying at are practically warehouses which expect residents to be up and out by 5:30am, when at this time of the year, it's still dark outside. For at least two blocks in either direction, there are constant drug deals going on, and the reek of urine is all over the place. For those of you who understand the reference, she likened it to Bedlam, the old English lunatic asylum.

She's got no kids and is too "young" to be helped by social security. She has no substance abuse issues and isn't considered to have mental health problems (severe depression doesn't count, I guess). She is basically screwed.

It's like having your grandmother living in a homeless shelter. She is a lovely woman who, when things weren't bad, would give you the shirt off her back if you were having problems. She is kind, sweet, helpful and has one of the biggest hearts I've ever known. We've given her nearly $2000 in financial help that we know we likely will never see again, but then, you should never give money with the idea that you'll get it back. If you cannot afford it, don't do it at all. (No, we didn't hand her cash. That's not our thing at all.)

It breaks my heart to know that she's in this position.

My guess is she hasn't pooped in public yet? there seems to be an outbreak of that among the OWS crowd! http://www.examiner.com/conservativ...attle-protester-defecating-on-public-sidewalk


I feel for your friend, I assume she does't have a church she can ask for help? many congregations of many different churches offer aid to their members and families. Actually the LDS church has a very highly praised welfare system which has helped many many people through rough times. they even have an employment bureau to help a person find a job (not a church job- unpaid clergy remember?) in their area. http://lds.org/service/welfare-75th-anniversary?lang=eng I am sure the LDS church isn't the only one that has these services available.


edit: did your friend ever consult a lawyer to file an age discrimination suit?

 

[Illiterati]

My guess is she hasn't pooped in public yet? there seems to be an outbreak of that among the OWS crowd! http://www.examiner.com/conservativ...attle-protester-defecating-on-public-sidewalk


I feel for your friend, I assume she does't have a church she can ask for help? many congregations of many different churches offer aid to their members and families. Actually the LDS church has a very highly praised welfare system which has helped many many people through rough times. they even have an employment bureau to help a person find a job (not a church job- unpaid clergy remember?) in their area. http://lds.org/service/welfare-75th-anniversary?lang=eng I am sure the LDS church isn't the only one that has these services available.


edit: did your friend ever consult a lawyer to file an age discrimination suit?

She goes to church, but their funds seemed to be more aimed at supporting families with children and people over the age of 65. Her parents are long dead and her brother died last March, so she has no family left who might be able to help her, either.

It's very difficult to press an age-discrimination case, as it's difficult to prove. Much like I would have a very difficult time finding a job as a disabled person (I have a service animal who mitigates my disability). They'd simply say they'd found someone who was "more qualified" or a "better fit".

SO much fun.

 

[Illiterati]

Well, well, well, well, well...

The plot thickens...

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/11/uc-davis-police-chief-leave-pepper-spray.html

I think she's trying to be the Red Queen here. It will be interesting indeed to see what occurs when it's all said and done.

 

[shavedape]

She goes to church, but their funds seemed to be more aimed at supporting families with children and people over the age of 65. Her parents are long dead and her brother died last March, so she has no family left who might be able to help her, either.

It's very difficult to press an age-discrimination case, as it's difficult to prove. Much like I would have a very difficult time finding a job as a disabled person (I have a service animal who mitigates my disability). They'd simply say they'd found someone who was "more qualified" or a "better fit".

SO much fun.

L.A. should have a place called The Newman Center which is a religious organization (Catholic I think). They pretty much can't refuse to take someone in and put them up (I don't know the length of time). It's basically part of their charter. I know my brother, when he was much much MUCH younger, used them for a place to stay when he couldn't get into the dorms in college at the start of his first semester in school (he was thousands of miles from home and had no money). I think he stayed for like 2 weeks or so. At any rate they might be able to help your friend out a little bit better than a shelter can.

And this may sound dumb on the surface but if your friend finds a stable place to bed down I would suggest she volunteer her services at any large organization she can find. I've known many people who have gotten good jobs from volunteer work they've done. My nephew did it right out of college when he couldn't find a job for his degree and now he's sitting pretty. Same with a couple people I've worked with over the years. All big charities need someone to help with the "paperwork" and office stuff. Sure it will suck not to be making a paycheck but if she's unemployed anyway it will at least be a really good thing on her resume. Plus the networking opportunities are really good from working with a charity. And oddly enough some charities actually pay their volunteers. I know that sounds weird but it's true. Years ago one of my clients "volunteered" for a religious organization and he actually got a paycheck from them. I'm not sure how it works really. At any rate, the networking opportunities are really good in volunteer situations so hopefully your friend will be able to manage to find something that route.

 

[Rac80]

back on topic:

I found this commenary by a fomer FBI agent to be very interesting:

{...}The fact that the crowd became more threatening and unruly led the police to withdraw, a prudent step at that point, as it was clear the situation had hit a plateau and could only get more heated or less, but could not sustain itself at that level of emotion. Again, this was not owing to the police actions, for they clearly only intended to keep on doing what they had already started to do, that is, physically remove the protesters. But the crowd was becoming more vocal and threatening. So to avoid more physical confrontation, the police withdrew.
In the end, this incident was an unfortunate one for all involved. But the way the press has treated this is a travesty. They have tried and convicted the police of some sort of brutality, which is fictional. Furthermore, they fail to provide all the facts necessary to fairly judge exactly what happened in this incident. For my part, until all the facts are in, I’ll reserve any judgment about the police. As for the protesters, in my view they clearly provoked this situation. What’s not clear is how fast it escalated and what efforts to defuse the situation were made before the spray was dispensed. These may be mitigating factors, but only to a degree. The fact is, the protesters resisted the police, and that is a violation of law. We live in a land ruled by law, not mobs. Consequently, in the end the responsibility for this incident rests with the protesters, not the police.

http://www.aim.org/aim-column/media-distort-uc-davis-pepper-spray-incident/

 

[Bluce Ree]

back on topic:

I found this commenary by a fomer FBI agent to be very interesting:


http://www.aim.org/aim-column/media-distort-uc-davis-pepper-spray-incident/

Uh-huh. Law Enforcement can spout as much opinion as they wish. What's obvious is that they were sitting on the ground in a group when the officer decided to spray them like shooting fish in a barrel. The crowd *around* them was getting riled up but they chose, instead, to spray the group seated on the ground. Why? To intimidate the crowd around them? What made the ones seated more threatening than those standing around them?

 

[Illiterati]

Uh-huh. Law Enforcement can spout as much opinion as they wish. What's obvious is that they were sitting on the ground in a group when the officer decided to spray them like shooting fish in a barrel. The crowd *around* them was getting riled up but they chose, instead, to spray the group seated on the ground. Why? To intimidate the crowd around them? What made the ones seated more threatening than those standing around them?

I suppose that it was more convenient and "safer" to spray the kids who were sitting down. Otherwise, he might have gotten pepperspray in his partner's eyes or the eyes of his co-officers. Can't have that, now can we?

 

[Bluce Ree]

"I want to be very clear in calling upon the Egyptian authorities to refrain from any violence against peaceful protesters. The people of Egypt have rights that are universal. That includes the right to peaceful assembly and association, the right to free speech, and the ability to determine their own destiny. These are human rights. And the United States will stand up for them everywhere." ~~ President Barack Obama

Apparently this only applies to demonstrations in other countries.

RAC80, a sit-in isn't violent. Also, that cop went down that row nice and slowly and then went back again for seconds the same way.

The same scenario occurred here in Los Angeles on Thursday morning, with people blocking the street. However, the Los Angeles Police Department's officers did NOT resort to the use of pepper spray to arrest people, and were surprisingly gentle as they pulled them upright after zipcuffing them. In neither situation was violence offered to the police, but only in Los Angeles did the police NOT use pepper spray.

I watched the entire thing on tv that morning, so I know there wasn't anything "hidden" from view.

LA cops not resorting to excessive force. Hard to believe they're the same cops that gave us Rodney King on video. I guess things can change for the better.

 

[Overmind One]

LA cops not resorting to excessive force. Hard to believe they're the same cops that gave us Rodney King on video. I guess things can change for the better.

LIKE NIGHT AND DAY, please trust me on that! LA cops can be downright pleasant and cordial and HELPFUL! Redondo Beach cops are AWESOME. They remember people, they chill out, and they never EVER are seen eating donuts. The only disturbing thing is that the littlest thing like a jaywalking ticket seems to bring like...3 cop cars! Not a lot of crime around here.

 

[Illiterati]

One of the Long Beach (California) police stations is right across the street from Krispy Kreme. I kid you not.

One of the Krispy Kreme employees told me that the cops NEVER come in there. I'm guessing that's a posted no-no or something. LOL

 

[Illiterati]

LA cops not resorting to excessive force. Hard to believe they're the same cops that gave us Rodney King on video. I guess things can change for the better.

Considering that the LA protesters also were sitting on the ground with linked arms, yeah.

Apparently, the LA cops didn't feel threatened.

I found a new article today about the cop who oversaw the Seattle debacle in 1999:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2011/11/seattle-wto-protests-norm-stamper.html

He feels that the police are handling these things in a far too militaristic manner since 9/11. I tend to agree with him.