American non(science)sense

[heisenberg]

Sweetie when I was about 10 (1972 ish) they were already discussing the coming nuclear winter. In fact one of today's biggest global warming advocates was trying to get everyone in a panic about global cooling - and guess what???!!!? Pollution and evil man caused it!


http://www.populartechnology.net/2013/02/the-1970s-global-cooling-alarmism.html


it's the same old song... just a different words...now it's global warming! in the 70's we were told that the world was dangerously overpopulated and even the USA would experience mass starvation by the late 90's, Canada would be covered with ice, fresh water would be impossible to find unless it were frozen, most of the USA would have the climate of Siberia. The southern hemisphere would be wealthy and be the world leaders, the list goes on...…


oh the halcyon days of youth!

People keep going back to that single report but science has come a long way and people during the 70s and only a handful of peer reviews said that they were cooling.
You also assume that it won't affect you because you have confirmation bias. We will only know when it's gone or it happens.It's the same mentality people have when they go oh we won't hit by a hurricane. The fact is, the climate is already changing and the earth is trying to self correct the balance hence why you are getting these fucked up weather events around the world.

I am hoping to get through to you. I know you are going to say that the ocean releases more Co2 than on land. Yes that's right, because of how much water there is, but do you know why that is?


The video below clearly explains WHY we are the cause. How? They look at the carbon isotopes in the air and measure it with the isotopes in the ground that are over 1,000,000 years deep. They found that those isotopes are more in the air. It's also because CO2 melts the icesheets on land, that ice goes into the ocean which changes the PH i.e. the acidity and therefore, the sea animals and shells/fish etc can't survive acidic water therefore die and thus releasing MORE CO2 into the atmosphere. IF there is no offset, to cover the short fall it's a sinking ship.

 

[heisenberg]

NO SWEAT!!!

But since I am here......

It is ironic you mention the climate change deal in response to the flat earth thing

when I was watching that flat earther nonsense THEY WOULD include their objections/fears about climate issues.

But for all the illogical reasons!

of course they nearly all say that the MMCC issue/push is nothing more then a conspiracy carried out tangential to the round earth "hoax" being perpetrated,apparently to them, by world govt's

also things like near earth orbit/satellites, moon landing--all of these issue go hand-in-glove with the 'round earth' world conspiracy

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as for myself, while i beleive the climate IS changing and that of course man's activities-as man is apart of nature- is OF COURSE having an effect on things

BUT, the level of blame assigned to human activities is being hyper inflated to help puch an agenda on us that will ultimately lead to the enrichment of big corporations doing things like selling 'carbon credits' and cheaply made solar energy products, "MMCC guilt taxes", etc,etc,etc

of course there are other facets to it as well:

the MMCC fear fueling the drive to get funding to do things like resurrecting woolly mammoths and other extinct herbivores to 'restore' artic,sub artic, 'siberian' tundra by having them eat trees and other non native to the tundra, vegetation

when, in reality, a closer look at some of the russian and chinese companies behind this research would stand to gain huge profit by using these potentially resurrecting animals for profit by selling their wool (clothing, insulation, other material made from their wool) and ivory

and then issues like world reach lumber companies profiting from the 'need' to strip by clear cut all the trees from huge areas of places like scotland and other areas where trees didn't once grow to allow peat bogs to be restored

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if we need to 'save the planet (which WE cannot do and is a massively obnoxious an idea that we could)', then why are govt's and corporations not putting more-or all, of their MMCC reversal funding into things like using power grids better, making more efficient solar panels for home owners, hell, why not build huge solar panel arrays (like the ones in china but bigger-MUCH more) in places that are now receiving/absorbing too much solar energy like the artic or antartica?

those would keep the ice pack from absorbing the energy and causing melt while generating power


INSTEAD OF doing better things with efficiency ,they are doing what should be fringe ideas which cause little if any "fix" or "planetary salvation" quite inefficiently and too costly


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this guy, once a leading and highly respected scientist, is now demonized by the MMCC community EVEN THOUGH he believes in MMCC completely

they hate him because he challenges current and proposed 'fixes' that the 'consensus' supports

I think it's too late for climate change. Unfortunately, it's a global effort and the fact is it's going to take decades to recover from all this.

 

[Overmind One]

Climate change is normal, not stoppable, and not caused by Man. Any and all entities claiming that giving them money or allowing them to "certify" the products or practices of others (for a fee) in the name of "Climate Change" are crooks and liars.

If you ask any of the so-called "deniers", rarely will any of them say they do not believe in climate change. Every time it rains or there is fog, or there are heat waves or bouts of cold, or even just a plain beautiful day, that is proof of climate change. Climate change IS real. What is not real is that Man is causing it, or that it can be stopped somehow. Climate change is a normal, cyclic thing that happens on earth. We have the empirical proof in the sediments, ice cores, and rings of trees. We have sea creature fossils in the deserts and at the tops of the tallest mountains. We have proof that thick coniferous forests covered Antarctica. We know that many areas of the earth which are deserts today were forests or grasslands of the past, and in some cases, where there was desert, there is now grassland.

Climate change IS real. Manmade climate change is NOT real, and NO we cannot stop or slow it nor should we. And especially don't try and cash in on it like these Global Warners are trying to do.

 

[Overmind One]

IMO,the simple fact that an article titled this way and written in such a way and targeted to adults, tells me that America is indeed slipping in science education and general common sense:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-science-why-arent-apes-evolving-into-humans/

Actually I think there are waaaayyyy too many truly ignorant adults in America, and that it has almost become standard practice to assume that the average American doesn't really know that much about science. It isn't like there are explosions or battles or love triangles in science programs or on PBS. Random conversations I have with people in public are appallingly lacking in complex thoughts (from them). They are incapable of discussing science or politics or even the tech they carry around with them. I just assume everyone I meet is dumb until I see otherwise.

 

[Overmind One]

well, these flat earther nutcases really have me twisted up!!!

but i have gleaned more info on them!

seems many are european, this "thing" tends to be a belief among european evangelicals

<<i am guessing that correlation-ally that these idiots are also drop outs from europe's mostly excellent system of education as well! >>

more learned- that one of their physical methods of "proof" is to "test" with lasers

ok, one view of this "experiment" and the equipment used showed me as a surveyor with many yrs of field experience, that their methods are freaking laughable

we used a laser surveying device (NOT a targeting laser designator like forward observers use) with a survey grade scope and laser mounted on a tripod and vertically plumb and leveled

at the measured end, another tripod is set up with a reflector mounted

this is accurate and will produce results with a computed accuracy to the thousandths of a meter.

not "eyeballed" based on persepctive or a home made laser aimed at a guy on a BOAT(!!!) out on a lake with swells (!!!!)
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well, at least there are some 'non celebrity' types out there making videos detailing just how and why this morons are wrong in both premise and 'results' on all accounts

funny too:

Sure, it is amusing to know these people exist, and I visited their site once just to see if it was a joke (and it is, even if it's members don't think so), and that's it. Experience has shown me that when somebody believes something which is obviously not likely, they spend lots and lots of time trying to prove their belief. This is also true of people who sell products which cannot come close to providing whatever benefit the seller is promising, because the seller believes in his product even when the product is clearly not what it is claiming to be.

The earth is not flat.

You should read some of the shit Ptolemy wrote about the earth and the universe. The Ptolemys and ancient Greek/Roman culture destroyed true science they had acquired from Egypt by embellishing it and changing it to suit tastes and personal preferences rather than maintaining it's empirical integrity.

and just how in hell can this still be a thing?!! FLAT EARTH!!!

i guess these old and insane 'doubts' are only re-fired and spread because of how easy it is to look like an expert with the internet?

It isn't a thing...at least not with any of the generational groups (like Millennians or Boomers or GenX. This is a fringe belief, in the same company as ghost hunters, alien abductees, Nessie witnesses, Yeti survivors and Rapture believers.

 

[YJ02]

Sure, it is amusing to know these people exist, and I visited their site once just to see if it was a joke (and it is, even if it's members don't think so), and that's it. Experience has shown me that when somebody believes something which is obviously not likely, they send lots and lots of time trying to prove their belief. This is also true of people who sell products which cannot come close to providing whatever benefit the seller is promising, because the seller believes in his product even when the product is clearly not what it is claiming to be.

The earth is not flat.

You should read some of the shit Ptolemy wrote about the earth and the universe. The Ptolemys and ancient Greek/Roman culture destroyed true science they had acquired from Egypt by embellishing it and changing it to suit tastes and personal preferences rather than maintaining it's empirical integrity.



It isn't a thing...at least not with any of the generational groups (like Millennians or Boomers or GenX. This is a fringe belief, in the same company as ghost hunters, alien abductees, Nessie witnesses, Yeti survivors and Rapture believers.

Yup

 

[heisenberg]

Climate change is normal, not stoppable, and not caused by Man. Any and all entities claiming that giving them money or allowing them to "certify" the products or practices of others (for a fee) in the name of "Climate Change" are crooks and liars.

If you ask any of the so-called "deniers", rarely will any of them say they do not believe in climate change. Every time it rains or there is fog, or there are heat waves or bouts of cold, or even just a plain beautiful day, that is proof of climate change. Climate change IS real. What is not real is that Man is causing it, or that it can be stopped somehow. Climate change is a normal, cyclic thing that happens on earth. We have the empirical proof in the sediments, ice cores, and rings of trees. We have sea creature fossils in the deserts and at the tops of the tallest mountains. We have proof that thick coniferous forests covered Antarctica. We know that many areas of the earth which are deserts today were forests or grasslands of the past, and in some cases, where there was desert, there is now grassland.

Climate change IS real. Manmade climate change is NOT real, and NO we cannot stop or slow it nor should we. And especially don't try and cash in on it like these Globam Warners are trying to do.

Manmade climate change is real dude. I don't know how many times do I need to show you this. I am not into religion if you think that climate change is a cult.

 

[heisenberg]

 

[heisenberg]

Sure, it is amusing to know these people exist, and I visited their site once just to see if it was a joke (and it is, even if it's members don't think so), and that's it. Experience has shown me that when somebody believes something which is obviously not likely, they send lots and lots of time trying to prove their belief. This is also true of people who sell products which cannot come close to providing whatever benefit the seller is promising, because the seller believes in his product even when the product is clearly not what it is claiming to be.

The earth is not flat.

You should read some of the shit Ptolemy wrote about the earth and the universe. The Ptolemys and ancient Greek/Roman culture destroyed true science they had acquired from Egypt by embellishing it and changing it to suit tastes and personal preferences rather than maintaining it's empirical integrity.



It isn't a thing...at least not with any of the generational groups (like Millennians or Boomers or GenX. This is a fringe belief, in the same company as ghost hunters, alien abductees, Nessie witnesses, Yeti survivors and Rapture believers.

Yup

Flat earthers are just clever trolls. It's like the alien conspiracy and the Illuminati controlling over the white house.

 

[YJ02]

Flat earthers are just clever trolls. It's like the alien conspiracy and the Illuminati controlling over the white house.

the videos of their 'experiments (ahem,ahem)' which I really "enjoyed (ahem ahem)" were the ones where they got some rooty poo distance measuring equipment and then measure distances over bodies of water

as a former pro surveyor in the army, i worked with several laser designating distance measuring systems as well as the good ole 30m steel tape

they no nothing-or act like it-of things like the difference between slope distance and horizontal distance. or things like putting a piece of equipment on a rocking boat will result in errors. or refraction, or curvature --which of course is the main thing they are trying to prove doesn't exist

they were just something i got a kick out of watching for a bit a long time ago

their dedication is near fanatical and if you try to post on YT to explain why their surveying methods are so wrong, they always resort to shit slinging against you

funny as hell

i also found interesting is that many of these people are not americans (because face it, we are just plain old crazy and sober shit faced ppl often times )but there seems to be huge clubs in europe,england and canada as well as elsewhere.

the europeans have some of the angriest counter postings; i guess since they already have been taught that they are superior ("yours is the superior intellect JUST BECAUSE") to everyone else they think that an american is just going to kow tow to them and piss off.
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like i said, it was just a bit of diversionary entertainment in the middle of a long winter

 

[Rac80]

Manmade climate change is real dude. I don't know how many times do I need to show you this. I am not into religion if you think that climate change is a cult.

Sorry it's not and saying over and over again that it is won't change it. It's a money making scam. I guess I have spent too many years around real scientists and know how it's "publish or perish" and "get that grant" to believe it's altruistic. When you've dealt with enough of them (in academia in my case) you see when way things work! Overmind is 100% right. Climate is always changing, but man isn't doing it!

 

[Lord Ba'al]

I would say climate is changing by itself, but mankind is definitely having an effect on climate as well. Even if you completely disregard temperature changes, the way we change the landscape by building, mining, deforestation and such is having a significant impact on environments which in turn has an effect on local climates which in turn would have some kind of effect on global climate. It's only logical Jim.

 

[Overmind One]

Manmade climate change is real dude. I don't know how many times do I need to show you this. I am not into religion if you think that climate change is a cult.

No it is not, and you cannot prove otherwise. What has caused the global climate changes of the past, dinosaur cars? Nothing you have shown me is based in empirical science. This forum has literally more than a hundred posts of empirical science posted by Rac80, PussyGalore, myself, yongjin, JimofWVA, and many past members. The links are here. And the proof is in the empirical science (hard, physical evidence).

I don't think climate change is a cult, it is a reality. But a cult of people who think Man is able to control the weather has co-opted the term "climate change" to confuse people. What happened to Manmade Global Warming? Nobody bit that one. Then came AGW (Anthropogenic Global Warming). I suppose they thought that would sound more science-y. But that was a fail too. So, they decided to just co-opt "climate change" from meaning the weather, to being code for manmade global warming.

Sorry dude, you have been suckered.

 

[Overmind One]

I would say climate is changing by itself, but mankind is definitely having an effect on climate as well. Even if you completely disregard temperature changes, the way we change the landscape by building, mining, deforestation and such is having a significant impact on environments which in turn has an effect on local climates which in turn would have some kind of effect on global climate. It's only logical Jim.

The effects are local only, not global. And Man's impact on even the local climate is very very limited.

QUESTIONS TO CLIMATE CHANGE BELIEVERS:

1. If Man can control the weather by decreasing CO2 and not burning any fossil fuels and singing Kumbaya, why doesn't he go to the cold parts of the earth and make it heat up? Why can't he create areas where there are no fossil fuels burned and even no cars and cool it down? Why is "Manmade Global Warming" not affecting Africa or South America or island nations like Malaysia and Fiji and The Phillipines?
2. What caused the Eocene Era (50 million years ago) which was the warmest period on earth, when the poles almost melted down to 50% of what they are today? Maybe the Flintstones didn't buy a Prius?

 

[Overmind One]

FAIL. These people are good salespeople though! I am not buying because I know better. You are their target.

 

[Overmind One]

Sorry it's not and saying over and over again that it is won't change it. It's a money making scam. I guess I have spent too many years around real scientists and know how it's "publish or perish" and "get that grant" to believe it's altruistic. When you've dealt with enough of them (in academia in my case) you see when way things work! Overmind is 100% right. Climate is always changing, but man isn't doing it!

BINGO. Me too. What sense does it make for a recently graduated "climatologist" or "marine biologist" to admit that climate change is a cyclic change in weather patterns on earth over thousands or millions of years when they need a job? Who is going to hire them except for foundations and entities like CERN which are 100% paid for by grants and endowments and donations from the rich who are making money on the scam? One of my neighbors is a sociologist, and she has earned her Masters and her Doctorate in Sociology, and her #1 goal at this point is to get a grant. She is exploring everything from wanting a grant to study the effects of hair color on human interactions, to identifying social triggers which define "comedy" as opposed to "insult". The opening request starts at 100K.

 

[YJ02]

I would say climate is changing by itself, but mankind is definitely having an effect on climate as well. Even if you completely disregard temperature changes, the way we change the landscape by building, mining, deforestation and such is having a significant impact on environments which in turn has an effect on local climates which in turn would have some kind of effect on global climate. It's only logical Jim.

and man, being a part of the natural order--i mean we are not aliens brought here from elsewhere--and all of his creations are all a part of this natural event

these things have happened in the past and our impact was far less because there were fewer of us and we made less of an impact

the poles melted just fine 10,000 yrs ago without any help from our ancestor's campfires. sea level rose worldwide without anyone impacting it through reef destruction or coastal property over development

 

[Overmind One]

and man, being a part of the natural order--i mean we are not aliens brought here from elsewhere--and all of his creations are all a part of this natural event

these things have happened in the past and our impact was far less because there were fewer of us and we made less of an impact

the poles melted just fine 10,000 yrs ago without any help from our ancestor's campfires. sea level rose worldwide without anyone impacting it through reef destruction or coastal property over development

Changes were WAAAAYYYY more extreme back then, before there were levees, dams, sandbags, trenches, sea walls, breakwaters, coastal cities, shorefront neighborhoods with luxury homes and underground plumbing and electrical lines. WE are in the way of the natural cyclic climate change of the earth. The climate change itself is 100% natural. Whole civilizations had to move because of rivers changing course or drying up. Whole nations have gone under the waves or been buried by desert sands or covered in ice.

 

[Lord Ba'al]

 

[Overmind One]

I think it's too late for climate change. Unfortunately, it's a global effort and the fact is it's going to take decades to recover from all this.

The only way to "recover" from it is to accommodate it. Start preparing for the rising sea levels, develop stronger sunscreen, find ways to make use of the warmer temperatures, etc. It cannot be stopped or reversed. Nothing is wrong with the climate, it is changing like it has been doing for millions of years. We need to start accepting that.