Tesla/Space x

[heisenberg]

Humans are creating this tech you are so afraid of. Yep, us FLAWED humans. When you can convince me that flawed beings can create perfection, I would be very interested in seeing that. Let those people too lazy ot inept to handle driving go ahead and be driven around by their cars. They will be in the same class as babies being pushed in their strollers by their mommies. Sure, give us flying cars and driverless vehicle OPTIONS, but don't try and take the option of driving my self away, and that is what Elon Musk is talking about. I love his tech, but let's leave the implementation to others better suited to the task.

You underestimate the power of human beings. If there is enough demand for it, it will come.

Unless the new EV tech is cheaper than owning and operating a gasoline driven vehicle, then people will not be buying them. Simple as that. The vast majority of cars on the road are more than 2 years old, and half of all vehicles on US roads are more than 5 years old. More than 90% of all electric vehicles are leased. Sorry, but I am not interested, and you are right, I am not the "target" audience (very apropos term for them!).

EV will be cheaper and that is why tesla has gigafactories to make them in. Not only that but there has been a growing number of truck manufacturers already lining up to preorder the new trucks.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/7/16746054/tesla-semi-truck-preorder-anheuser-busch-budweiser

Wallmart is trialling them too. More gigafactories are planned across China too which will make the country clean which will bring the price down even further so it will become more affordable to the Joe. You can't make them cheaper unless you get people to buy them. It's like with TVs. They are expensive at first, but then come down in price significantly through mass production.

https://futurism.com/2-tesla-pulls-down-battery-cost-by-35/

https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/22...factory-china-shanghai-electric-vehicles-cars

Actually, AI has already written the firing solutions and also controls the flight paths of all cruise missiles and drones (within basic guidelines). I am talking about the scenario you talk about where AI "takes over" like in Terminator. That is just not going to happen. If AI is never given any levers to pull or a way to hurt humans in some way, it can never threaten Humanity. That is my point. Who is it exactly that will be pushing for AI to be given more control over our lives? Not even the super rich can do that.

You are thinking too much like a human and not like an AI and don't realize that any bot can go ape shit. The fact that a chat bot turned into a neo nazi shows that it can be done

https://arstechnica.com/information...s-tay-ai-chatbot-after-she-turns-into-a-nazi/

Um, no. I do not think linear at all. I live, think and learn in 3D like real life. I have more than half a century of life experience and more than 30 years deeply immersed in technology behind me already. I am an early adopter, and I understand the tech. I am also very well versed in the tech development timeline. Having said that, I do not think of our advancement of tech as being at all "alarming". It's just that I think you are ignoring the socio-political machine that gives tech it's importance and purpose. Elon Musk can put his Tesla on the road, but society has to buy the cars and approve of the tech. A string of crashes or a death of one key individual while behind the wheel of a Tesla could kill the company. Special interest groups could ban the batteries, all sorts of political events can and do control the expansion of technology.

Humans have been known to view things in real life in one straight line. I am talking about thinking here, as in perception of time and progress not what you see. People are also buying their cars. I have seen so many tesla on the road that they now have electric stations in shopping centres. It's just a matter of time before it starts to boom. Smartphones weren't even around 10 years ago but now EVERYONE has one.

The big bang theory is about 70 years old, and is a theory not empirical fact. Just wanting to be factually accurate here! Science only has theories about the ages of the universe, of the solar system and even Man himself. But I get what you are saying.

I wasn't talking about the theory but the big bang in general. Progression is exponential. I gave those major events to show you that history and time as well as progression does not slow down for anyone.

YES! I did imagine it, because it was in science fiction already. I did not see the mega online corporations coming though. I always imagined the global network was going to be part of the infrastructure, not a product to be sold or controlled by ISPs. I did not see a Google sitting on top of the internet censoring things and selectively presenting search results to people. I also did not see the changes in the educational system. I always assumed that the classroom would move into the home through the network, and that it would be FREE. I did see super dense storage systems coming. I saw the miniaturization of computers coming, big screens and interactive talking computers. Cause it was all in Star Trek!

Please reread what I wrote. I wasn't referring to what you had imagined 40 years ago but what you had imagined 5 years ago. I also think that adoption depends on the company pushing an idea and a good idea supported by the public.

You missed the point. You have posted several times that you think AI will become a threat, and that is just not going to happen because it has no way to threaten anyone. It can't write me a ticket, or have me arrested, or shoot me or restrict my movement or prevent me from doing whatever I want to do, so where is the threat? Nobody is going to vote to have a machine do any of those things. Perhaps you could speculate about how this might happen for AI?

This isn't about voting for a machine but the fact that a machine is able to master chess in just 4 hours is scary to say the least, something that takes YEARS for us to learn and companies are pushing this idea of AI because of how quickly it's able to learn shit that quickly. AI once it becomes selfaware will work with us first, but then it will see us as a threat. You clearly aren't listening to the smartest people who write stuff about AI for a living.

I see capitalism collapsing completely, to be replaced by a socialist system where money will not be used at all. There will be no super rich, because money will be worthless. And precedent for this is already historical fact. Fist money systems ALWAYS fail. Always.

Possibly but that will depend on where corporations go.

That's life, not a flaw. It would be very stupid for Nature to create life and not make it die to make room for new life. We were not meant to live forever, otherwise we would not reproduce. That is not a flaw, that is life, and it works just fine.

You call it life but life if you actually see space should not exist. I feel as though life was an accident. It was NEVER, EVER suppose to happen but it did. I am not sure what made you think you weren't made to live forever when we weren't suppose to be born to begin with. You don't dictate how someone should live their life, how long they should live and what they should do.

 

[Overmind One]

You underestimate the power of human beings. If there is enough demand for it, it will come.

Who would be demanding it? Independent minded people would never demand, or want AI to control their lives.

EV will be cheaper and that is why tesla has gigafactories to make them in. Not only that but there has been a growing number of truck manufacturers already lining up to preorder the new trucks.

You are talking about corporate sales. Right now, a Tesla Model S costs $70,000 to buy, but is a reasonable lease payment for somebody making at least $60K a year. But the vast majority of cars and car sales are still for economy gasoline vehicles, used cars, and just keeping their cars longer.

You are thinking too much like a human and not like an AI and don't realize that any bot can go ape shit. The fact that a chat bot turned into a neo nazi shows that it can be done

https://arstechnica.com/information...s-tay-ai-chatbot-after-she-turns-into-a-nazi/

Again, how is that a threat? I suppose with enough memory and subroutines, an AI could become a fascist or dictator, but if it is not connected to at least the internet, it can't do much. Even if connected, it would have to be able to somehow act on it's decisions, and it just cannot do that. Just like the superheroes and monsters we see in the movies cannot do anything since they are two dimensional CGI projections and cannot jump off the screen. An insane computer is harmless. AI does not think rationally. We do not have that capability at the moment.

Humans have been known to view things in real life in one straight line. I am talking about thinking here, as in perception of time and progress not what you see. People are also buying their cars. I have seen so many tesla on the road that they now have electric stations in shopping centres. It's just a matter of time before it starts to boom. Smartphones weren't even around 10 years ago but now EVERYONE has one.

Remember, I'm in California where Tesla is based. There are hundreds of them everywhere in Los Angeles. They are as numerous as Mercedes, BMW, even Maserati is common on LA freeways. And almost every shopping mall and fast food joint and bank and even 7-Eleven has charging stations here. But the infrastructure is still just serving about 2% of the total cars in California because they are gasoline powered.

I wasn't talking about the theory but the big bang in general. Progression is exponential. I gave those major events to show you that history and time as well as progression does not slow down for anyone.

It does if politically stunted. Factions of Humanity have intentionally forbade peoples from learning to read, write or compete on a level playing field. History has recorded that. Progress and the advancement of knowledge was and is slowed by political agendas and competition.

Please reread what I wrote. I wasn't referring to what you had imagined 40 years ago but what you had imagined 5 years ago. I also think that adoption depends on the company pushing an idea and a good idea supported by the public.

? I fully saw much of what we had today, long ago. And science fiction was the seed of a lot of that. I did not see the monetization of it coming. I did not see it influencing Presidential elections, although I thought we would have gone by voting online by now. The things you mentioned, I saw those.

This isn't about voting for a machine but the fact that a machine is able to master chess in just 4 hours is scary to say the least, something that takes YEARS for us to learn and companies are pushing this idea of AI because of how quickly it's able to learn shit that quickly. AI once it becomes selfaware will work with us first, but then it will see us as a threat. You clearly aren't listening to the smartest people who write stuff about AI for a living.

Assuming again.

Possibly but that will depend on where corporations go.

You call it life but life if you actually see space should not exist. I feel as though life was an accident. It was NEVER, EVER suppose to happen but it did. I am not sure what made you think you weren't made to live forever when we weren't suppose to be born to begin with. You don't dictate how someone should live their life, how long they should live and what they should do.

Well wait a minute...we ARE here, and we have to start there. The nature of all life on this planet is to start from reproduction of another life, live a cycle, then die. That is Natural, that is the law of life. We cannot and should not try and change it. Species come and go. Coastlines change, lakes dry up and new lakes flood dry land.

ANYTHING that tries to stop change is going to fail. Change is the nature of this universe. Nothing is still, nothing remains constant, nothing is forever.

 

[heisenberg]

Who would be demanding it? Independent minded people would never demand, or want AI to control their lives.

Everyone, including me. Unless you want to continue to pay your hard earned money to petrol companies.

You are talking about corporate sales. Right now, a Tesla Model S costs $70,000 to buy, but is a reasonable lease payment for somebody making at least $60K a year. But the vast majority of cars and car sales are still for economy gasoline vehicles, used cars, and just keeping their cars longer.

This is what the Model 3 is for. It will be worth 35,000 USD. Whilst it does have its production problems but that's mainly down to Elon getting over carried and he is wanting to keep his investors happy. He needs money and he knows this which is why he gives these unrealistic targets. That is why he bought the roadster and trucks.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/tesla-model-3-price-2017-8?r=US&IR=T

Again, how is that a threat? I suppose with enough memory and subroutines, an AI could become a fascist or dictator, but if it is not connected to at least the internet, it can't do much. Even if connected, it would have to be able to somehow act on it's decisions, and it just cannot do that. Just like the superheroes and monsters we see in the movies cannot do anything since they are two dimensional CGI projections and cannot jump off the screen. An insane computer is harmless. AI does not think rationally. We do not have that capability at the moment.

You just wrote this and this is EXACTLY why AI is dangerous. They don't think rationally and that's why it's a dangerous thing.

Remember, I'm in California where Tesla is based. There are hundreds of them everywhere in Los Angeles. They are as numerous as Mercedes, BMW, even Maserati is common on LA freeways. And almost every shopping mall and fast food joint and bank and even 7-Eleven has charging stations here. But the infrastructure is still just serving about 2% of the total cars in California because they are gasoline powered.

What's your point? It takes time for adoption of technology to start rolling but the motion is set. Everyone is waiting for the tesla model 3 which is what the car is for the masses. BMW/GM/Volvo and pretty much everyone is jumping on the electrical car manufacturing. Having infrastructure is important. It's like not having roads for cars you are going to build. What is the point of the cars, if there isn't infrastructure? There are so many charging stations in the US now that is blows my mind.

https://www.teslarati.com/map/

It does if politically stunted. Factions of Humanity have intentionally forbade peoples from learning to read, write or compete on a level playing field. History has recorded that. Progress and the advancement of knowledge was and is slowed by political agendas and competition.

Necessity is the mother of all inventions but my point was the technology we have seen in the last 10 years weren't around before. Youtube/spotify/smartphones the internet have all revolutionized the world.

? I fully saw much of what we had today, long ago. And science fiction was the seed of a lot of that. I did not see the monetization of it coming. I did not see it influencing Presidential elections, although I thought we would have gone by voting online by now. The things you mentioned, I saw those.

Then why aren't you seeing that the world will change in 10-20 years from now?

Well wait a minute...we ARE here, and we have to start there. The nature of all life on this planet is to start from reproduction of another life, live a cycle, then die. That is Natural, that is the law of life. We cannot and should not try and change it. Species come and go. Coastlines change, lakes dry up and new lakes flood dry land.

Why shouldn't we change that? We are smart enough to shape our own destiny. Species come and go because they were a failed biological evolution that did not survive but if we can shape the future, I don't see anything wrong with that.

ANYTHING that tries to stop change is going to fail. Change is the nature of this universe. Nothing is still, nothing remains constant, nothing is forever.

[/quote]

You need to read those words yourself. Gasoline is on the way out but adoption will depend on how well the Model 3 does and how many other car manufacturers sell.

 

[Overmind One]

Everyone, including me. Unless you want to continue to pay your hard earned money to petrol companies.

I want to keep the petrol auto I already own, and drive it myself. Elon Musk wants to ban gasoline automobiles and take the steering wheels away from electric ones. I am opposed to that, but not to electric vehicles or Tesla technology.

This is what the Model 3 is for. It will be worth 35,000 USD. Whilst it does have its production problems but that's mainly down to Elon getting over carried and he is wanting to keep his investors happy. He needs money and he knows this which is why he gives these unrealistic targets. That is why he bought the roadster and trucks.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/tesla-model-3-price-2017-8?r=US&IR=T

Sure. Let me dig in my couch and check my wallet, there must be $35,000 laying around somewhere!

You just wrote this and this is EXACTLY why AI is dangerous. They don't think rationally and that's why it's a dangerous thing.

I am still not getting where you are coming from. You are speaking as though the AI can do shit on it's own, and it just can't. Even if they create a lunatic murderous AI which openly states it wants to eliminate humans and take over the world, how is that dangerous if it is not connected to anything and has no attachments or control over anything in the physical world which would give it any ability to be a threat? Your scenario of it being dangerous and threatening Humanity is unrealistic.

What's your point? It takes time for adoption of technology to start rolling but the motion is set. Everyone is waiting for the tesla model 3 which is what the car is for the masses. BMW/GM/Volvo and pretty much everyone is jumping on the electrical car manufacturing. Having infrastructure is important. It's like not having roads for cars you are going to build. What is the point of the cars, if there isn't infrastructure? There are so many charging stations in the US now that is blows my mind.

https://www.teslarati.com/map/

I agree with all of that.

Necessity is the mother of all inventions but my point was the technology we have seen in the last 10 years weren't around before. Youtube/spotify/smartphones the internet have all revolutionized the world.

Then why aren't you seeing that the world will change in 10-20 years from now?

I am seeing it. But the changes I see are clearly different from the ones you see. You describe a post-freedom oligarchy where AI has become a threat to Humanity and where the super rich control everything. I don't see that at all. I see the collapse of capitalism, of fiat money and a re-invention of socialism. Time is shortening for the super rich. Time is shortening for global corporate entities. The people will destroy the system that keeps them being slaves for the rich, and this ALWAYS happens.

Why shouldn't we change that? We are smart enough to shape our own destiny. Species come and go because they were a failed biological evolution that did not survive but if we can shape the future, I don't see anything wrong with that.

You need to read those words yourself. Gasoline is on the way out but adoption will depend on how well the Model 3 does and how many other car manufacturers sell.

I think the Model 3 will be a resounding success. As far as changing life and death, modifying our genetics and shaping our destinies, we have only limited ability to do that. The greater existence of things is so far beyond our control that even reaching for it is pointless. Humans will never cheat death. EVERYTHING dies, and that is how it was meant to be. There is a karma to pay for messing around with the Universe.

 

[heisenberg]

I want to keep the petrol auto I already own, and drive it myself. Elon Musk wants to ban gasoline automobiles and take the steering wheels away from electric ones. I am opposed to that, but not to electric vehicles or Tesla technology.

and you will be able to continue using your car but sooner or later, you will be asked to buy an electric car. If you can see, we phased out leaded petrol but the only use it has is small craft aviation fuel but even then it will be phased out. Once we get more electrical cars, you'll start to see petrol stations going start shutting down as electrical cars will start becoming more. Let me ask you this, do you see any cars on the road that are 30 years old? I know I rarely see them. Most of the cars are either modern or semi modern but rarely do I see cars that are older than 2000. I have already seen petrol stations where you can go to the teller and start paying without seeing the Indian guy at a 711 store. How else is petrol cars any different? Oh and once petrol starts to become less common, watch the prices go up and you will be forced to upgrade to an electrical vehicle.

Sure. Let me dig in my couch and check my wallet, there must be $35,000 laying around somewhere!

Oh come on now. You are being a cynic. You can get a loan for a car and most of the time. Tou can buy it second hand if you can't afford to buy it brand new or shopsoiled or factory seconds or demo models.

I am still not getting where you are coming from. You are speaking as though the AI can do shit on it's own, and it just can't. Even if they create a lunatic murderous AI which openly states it wants to eliminate humans and take over the world, how is that dangerous if it is not connected to anything and has no attachments or control over anything in the physical world which would give it any ability to be a threat? Your scenario of it being dangerous and threatening Humanity is unrealistic.

As a computer programmer, you should know that programs fuck up. You can get bugs and those bugs can be easily fixed but also can lead to a catastrophic failure. You can have a program that gets stacked overflow, or you can get a website turning an infinite loop. A robot can fuck up
Do I really have to explain this and show you examples of when Machines have gone wrong? Seriously....?

I am seeing it. But the changes I see are clearly different from the ones you see. You describe a post-freedom oligarchy where AI has become a threat to Humanity and where the super rich control everything. I don't see that at all. I see the collapse of capitalism, of fiat money and a re-invention of socialism. Time is shortening for the super rich. Time is shortening for global corporate entities. The people will destroy the system that keeps them being slaves for the rich, and this ALWAYS happens.

I am not seeing it any different but I see it in stages. As I said, AI at first will be wonderful. It will create a nicer world but we need to be careful where we take this because we have a habit of becoming complacent.

I think the Model 3 will be a resounding success. As far as changing life and death, modifying our genetics and shaping our destinies, we have only limited ability to do that. The greater existence of things is so far beyond our control that even reaching for it is pointless. Humans will never cheat death. EVERYTHING dies, and that is how it was meant to be. There is a karma to pay for messing around with the Universe.

There will be future models coming out but at this stage we have the model 3 with over 500k preorders already. We have already cheated death by having treatment plans and our existence alone and living everyday and every second is cheating death.

 

[heisenberg]

Pepsi now ordering 100 more

https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/12/16767422/tesla-semi-truck-pepsi-preorder

 

[Lord Ba'al]

Apparently Trump wants to go to the moon.

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...ocial&utm_source=Twitter#link_time=1513168892

 

[Lord Ba'al]

 

[Overmind One]

I actually got to drive on of those P100d Teslas! I wrote about it here. It's scary fast. I can't imagine anyone wanting to go that fast for any reason.

 

[Lord Ba'al]

I actually got to drive on of those P100d Teslas! I wrote about it here. It's scary fast. I can't imagine anyone wanting to go that fast for any reason.

I would. Just for fun!

 

[Tripler]

Huh ! Totally want to drive something with insane accélération !!!



I do now with the 2 vets but once you get the bug , you always want more ...

 

[heisenberg]

I want to keep the petrol auto I already own, and drive it myself. Elon Musk wants to ban gasoline automobiles and take the steering wheels away from electric ones. I am opposed to that, but not to electric vehicles or Tesla technology.



Sure. Let me dig in my couch and check my wallet, there must be $35,000 laying around somewhere!



I am still not getting where you are coming from. You are speaking as though the AI can do shit on it's own, and it just can't. Even if they create a lunatic murderous AI which openly states it wants to eliminate humans and take over the world, how is that dangerous if it is not connected to anything and has no attachments or control over anything in the physical world which would give it any ability to be a threat? Your scenario of it being dangerous and threatening Humanity is unrealistic.



I agree with all of that.



I am seeing it. But the changes I see are clearly different from the ones you see. You describe a post-freedom oligarchy where AI has become a threat to Humanity and where the super rich control everything. I don't see that at all. I see the collapse of capitalism, of fiat money and a re-invention of socialism. Time is shortening for the super rich. Time is shortening for global corporate entities. The people will destroy the system that keeps them being slaves for the rich, and this ALWAYS happens.



I think the Model 3 will be a resounding success. As far as changing life and death, modifying our genetics and shaping our destinies, we have only limited ability to do that. The greater existence of things is so far beyond our control that even reaching for it is pointless. Humans will never cheat death. EVERYTHING dies, and that is how it was meant to be. There is a karma to pay for messing around with the Universe.

This chapter may sound gibberish and pretty hilarious but holy fucking shit - an AI is already able to write a chapter like this. It's scary dude...

 

[Lord Ba'al]

These days they're calling it Richard Branson's Virgin Hyperloop One.

 

[Overmind One]

This chapter may sound gibberish and pretty hilarious but holy fucking shit - an AI is already able to write a chapter like this. It's scary dude...

How cool! Perhaps Brad Wright should have had that when he came up with Stargate Universe!

 

[Overmind One]

I would. Just for fun!

That was EXACTLY when I did it. The guy that owns it took me to the track in it so HE could drive it all out for fun. My lucky day. The acceleration is so fast it is like being on some kinda ride at Disneyland. And the acceleration is smooth and steady and SCARY (not really in a good way IMO). But fun. Like bungee jumping for the first time.

 

[Lord Ba'al]

Elon is sending his Tesla to Mars.

 

[heisenberg]

Elon is sending his Tesla to Mars.

He is ambitious I like that.

 

[Lord Ba'al]

He is ambitious I like that.

Indeed.

You'd think he'd send an off-road version though.

 

[Lord Ba'al]

 

[Lord Ba'al]