Why have so many recent movies and shows been awful?

[Joelist]

What do you think? I have a possible thought....

Could part of the problem be that they are not using genre writers on these Science Fiction and Fantasy productions? A genre writer (in this case Fantasy or Science Fiction) has the knowledge and experience to write the type of fiction desired correctly - they know the structure, the proper tone, the archetypes and so on.

A lot of the recent disasters (Doctor Who Season 11, STD, etc.) have had writers rooms with no one in them possessing the proper experience. Doctor Who for example in this last, cringeworthy season had a writers room featuring no one with science fiction experience or who was even familiar with Doctor Who. Instead they had crap like political playwrights, people who wrote for Eastenders and other light drama writers. STD was very similar.

Meanwhile The Orville writing room? Seth MacFarlane, Brannon Braga, Andre Bormanis, Joe Menosky, David A Goodman....notice something here? All of them except MacFarlane are both accomplished screenwriters and accomplished SCIENCE FICTION screenwriters. And in Seth's case he both is a lifetime science fiction fan and takes a lot of input from the rest. And it shows.

How about The Expanse? The structure is different in that while there are screenwriters they are required to conform in plot, tone and character development to the show Bible (also known as the books) and indeed the authors are also the show runners. So this resembles Babylon 5 more where Straczynski kept a tight rein on everything.

What do you think?

 

[Overmind One]

What do you think? I have a possible thought....

Could part of the problem be that they are not using genre writers on these Science Fiction and Fantasy productions? A genre writer (in this case Fantasy or Science Fiction) has the knowledge and experience to write the type of fiction desired correctly - they know the structure, the proper tone, the archetypes and so on.

A lot of the recent disasters (Doctor Who Season 11, STD, etc.) have had writers rooms with no one in them possessing the proper experience. Doctor Who for example in this last, cringeworthy season had a writers room featuring no one with science fiction experience or who was even familiar with Doctor Who. Instead they had crap like political playwrights, people who wrote for Eastenders and other light drama writers. STD was very similar.

Meanwhile The Orville writing room? Seth MacFarlane, Brannon Braga, Andre Bormanis, Joe Menosky, David A Goodman....notice something here? All of them except MacFarlane are both accomplished screenwriters and accomplished SCIENCE FICTION screenwriters. And in Seth's case he both is a lifetime science fiction fan and takes a lot of input from the rest. And it shows.

How about The Expanse? The structure is different in that while there are screenwriters they are required to conform in plot, tone and character development to the show Bible (also known as the books) and indeed the authors are also the show runners. So this resembles Babylon 5 more where Straczynski kept a tight rein on everything.

What do you think?

This is what I think, based upon observations. The market research departments at the major studios and media cooperatives have been doing what they THINK they need to do in order to draw the Millennial viewership. It was done in the 1960s for the first Boomers, and then again for the 80s (for adult Boomers who were then building the tech industries), and yet again for Gen X in the late 1990s. Now, they want the Millennials and this generation confounds them. How do you draw in the social justice warriors and college students who are steeped in identity politics, without offending half of them? It has made for some AWFUL remakes, forced inclusion of unlikely elements into our media, a feminist narrative which also finds it necessary to destroy masculinity in men in order to be acceptable, lots of dumb stuff.

Science fiction may be the one entertainment genre which might remain free of this if it remains true to it's definition. The Expanse has done this.

 

[Joelist]

That is no doubt part of the problem too. The irony is that SJWs and their ilk are only a small portion of Millennials and even smaller in Gen Z. But they cry a lot and the entertainment companies exist in an echo chamber where they hear only one perspective. It is a bad thing especially in combination with their not using genre writers as I noted upthread - the result is crud that both the traditional fanbase and the millennials and Gen Z are rejecting.

 

[Rac80]

because there is not an original thought left in hollyweird!

 

[Joelist]

Hi Rac! Welcome back!

As to original ideas, that too is a potential cause. That said, even an original idea would be ruined with their present practices of kowtowing to SJWs and not using writers with legitimate genre creds/experience.

 

[YJ02]

however crap new stuff is, if it doesn't make some money the genre is in danger of just dying away

i am perfectly willing to persevere through the garbage--not that i will watch it or pay for it-- so that we can get at least a few gems here and there and so that the genre survives in visual format

it is about the money of course and if the money people see that no sci fi is making any money, however bad the film or show is, they will stop investing entirely and then the good stuff will be axed along with the bad
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the 'why' of the awfulness?

yes demographics and i also blame the 'flash demand' of things

the way everyone, not just millennials, want their entertainment and they want it now.

they don't want to wait a decade for a good story and for proper production, they want it rolled up into a piece of crap as fast as possible and released because THEY want it that way


and everything that goes along with a new release or even a new season

all the predictions and leaked info videos that people scramble to make all in the hopes of making some YT advert money

these people just need the thought or mere mention of something being made, maybe, to launch them into a storm of prediction/ theory/ leaks videos

there is so much more and I can go on, but in addition to the money, the demographics and the seeming lack of ideas, I think it boils down to the 'We want it now' culture that the internet has created. No patience for anything made slow and good anymore

 

[Joelist]

That's the thing. The poorly written ones are the ones hemorrhaging viewers and money. The better written stuff like the Orville and The Expanse are doing well. Remember SyFy only cancelled The Expanse because they had negotiated a really stupid contract where they did not get any cut of the streaming revenue - and the streaming numbers for The Expanse have been huge (which is one reason Amazon leapt to pick it up).

 

[YJ02]

That's the thing. The poorly written ones are the ones hemorrhaging viewers and money. The better written stuff like the Orville and The Expanse are doing well. Remember SyFy only cancelled The Expanse because they had negotiated a really stupid contract where they did not get any cut of the streaming revenue - and the streaming numbers for The Expanse have been huge (which is one reason Amazon leapt to pick it up).

yes, buy two really good shows are not enough to keep a whole genre afloat

and we know what good--or popular shows spawn,,, really poorly done copy cats. no thanks

somehow, someway (and this goes for more than just entertainment) people need to be slowed down-tech ,expectations ,patience (acquiring it), travel...slow down ,breathe, relax and learn the beauty of anticipation for something made slow and good

 

[Overmind One]

yes, buy two really good shows are not enough to keep a whole genre afloat

and we know what good--or popular shows spawn,,, really poorly done copy cats. no thanks

somehow, someway (and this goes for more than just entertainment) people need to be slowed down-tech ,expectations ,patience (acquiring it), travel...slow down ,breathe, relax and learn the beauty of anticipation for something made slow and good

Disney and CBS and also Sony Pictures are learning the hard way that "woke" is not a formula that can be nailed down, and may not be reliable.