The Decline of Star Wars has Disney concerned

Overmind One

Overmind One

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I found this on YouTube:


Since the release of The Force Awakens, the entire Star Wars franchise has suffered not just by a lack of enthusiasm, but by draconian requirements imposed by Disney on the theaters screening the movie:

Before exhibitors can begin screening “Star Wars: The Last Jedi” this December, they must first commit to a set of top-secret terms that numerous theater owners say are the most onerous they have ever seen. Disney will receive about 65% of ticket revenue from the film, a new high for a Hollywood studio. Disney is also requiring theaters to show the movie in their largest auditorium for at least four weeks.
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Really? How did that work out, Disney!? The toys are sitting on the shelves of just about every store. Even Big Lots has action figures on sale for a couple of bucks each. There is almost no repeat theater watching in the fanbase. The one metric which counts is total box office revenue, and what is driving that is ridiculously high theater ticket fees AND screener fees to the studios. So, even a movie making 200 million can be seen as a failure. In this case, its the franchise itself that is dying. Abrams & Co are unable to invent engaging new characters. There are lots of reasons. What are your thoughts, SW fans?
 
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PussyGalore

PussyGalore

Meow
Overmind One said:
I found this on YouTube:

Before exhibitors can begin screening “Star Wars: The Last Jedi” this December, they must first commit to a set of top-secret terms that numerous theater owners say are the most onerous they have ever seen. Disney will receive about 65% of ticket revenue from the film, a new high for a Hollywood studio. Disney is also requiring theaters to show the movie in their largest auditorium for at least four weeks.
Click to expand...

:SmileyLaughingTears:

How is Disney gonna know which auditorium the movie is shown in? Are they gonna send out the Disney Secret police to check? How stupid.
 
Overmind One

Overmind One

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PussyGalore said:
:SmileyLaughingTears:

How is Disney gonna know which auditorium the movie is shown in? Are they gonna send out the Disney Secret police to check? How stupid.
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I bet it's somebody's paycheck to go around and check shit like that. Its Disney....you know they do it! You cannot even make a parody Minnie Mouse showing her little mouse boobs without Disney running up in your face.
 
heisenberg

heisenberg

Earl Grey
Overmind One said:
I found this on YouTube:


Since the release of The Force Awakens, the entire Star Wars franchise has suffered not just by a lack of enthusiasm, but by draconian requirements imposed by Disney on the theaters screening the movie:



Really? How did that work out, Disney!? The toys are sitting on the shelves of just about every store. Even Big Lots has action figures on sale for a couple of bucks each. There is almost no repeat theater watching in the fanbase. The one metric which counts is total box office revenue, and what is driving that is ridiculously high theater ticket fees AND screener fees to the studios. So, even a movie making 200 million can be seen as a failure. In this case, its the franchise itself that is dying. Abrams & Co are unable to invent engaging new characters. There are lots of reasons. What are your thoughts, SW fans?
Click to expand...
It's because they burnt the entire franchise to the ground. They are not treating their fanbase properly. Plus the games have been a disaster.
 
Overmind One

Overmind One

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heisenberg said:
It's because they burnt the entire franchise to the ground. They are not treating their fanbase properly. Plus the games have been a disaster.
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I think there are licensing and distribution issues happening with the original merchandise from the OT and Prequels. The new merchandise is what's not selling well. Everything starting from The Force Awakens onward. Example on Disney's store:

https://www.shopdisney.com/star-war...3650!&ef_id=WokzMgAABU@15@5s:20180320055327:s

lmao.PNG
 
Overmind One

Overmind One

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Perhaps only the stuff not touched by JJ is going to save the franchise? Stuff like The Clone Wars, Rebels, perhaps another animated show or the live action series they were talking about. JJ has shown us time and time again that he likes convoluted, disjointed storylets tossed like a salad and served fast and loud and bright. He has done this with every movie and short format media he has done. He is mediocre as directors go, and I just do not understand why they are handing him the reigns to important franchises and other projects.
 
PussyGalore

PussyGalore

Meow
Overmind One said:
Perhaps only the stuff not touched by JJ is going to save the franchise? Stuff like The Clone Wars, Rebels, perhaps another animated show or the live action series they were talking about. JJ has shown us time and time again that he likes convoluted, disjointed storylets tossed like a salad and served fast and loud and bright. He has done this with every movie and short format media he has done. He is mediocre as directors go, and I just do not understand why they are handing him the reigns to important franchises and other projects.
Click to expand...

I think the problem is that a lot of what's in the script doesn't make it onto the screen. I talked about this earlier in terms of "exposition" within a screenplay. I suspect that Abrams comes up with a script that is chock full of exposition explaining exactly what the hell is going on. He then shows that script to TPTB at Disney and they think it's cool because from their viewpoint it makes sense -- it's fully explained right there on the page. The problem comes in when Abrams translates his script to the screen. A hell of a lot of explanatory exposition gets lost in the process.

So with Leia's "magic carpet ride" in TLJ any sort of legit explanation as to why she's suddenly able to fly through space is gone. I'm sure it was there on the page of the original script, but moviegoers aren't reading a script, they're watching a two-dimensional movie that relies on dialogue to explain most of what's happening.

I'm not kidding. This is a real problem in Hollywood today. Scripts are written with heavy exposition that is used to explain what's going on so that the person reading the script will be sucked in as if they're reading an exciting novel. (This is a version of "breaking the fourth wall"; i.e. it lets the author of the script talk directly to the person reading the script as opposed to using character dialogue and basic camera direction to explain what is happening in the story. This shouldn't be confused with the acting version of "breaking the fourth wall" which is where a character talks directly to the camera.)

I submit that it's because of this method of script writing today that we now see so many movies that are flawed and downright unintelligible. Of course there are still good writers out there who give us clearly defined and understandable stories, like James Gunn of "Guardians" fame who Joelist pointed out awhile back. Unlike Abrams, Gunn not only understands how to write a script that will translate to the screen but he also respects the audience enough to make sure everything is explained in full detail right there on the screen. I'm starting to think that director/writers like Gunn are a dying breed though as proven by the cadre of losers who have given us nothing but dreck over the last decade or so.
 
Joelist

Joelist

What ship is this?
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The weird thing is that they were actually in a good place after The Force Awakens. It did monster boxoffice, was generally liked by the Star Wars fan community (while they do acknowledge it was derivative they seem to give it a pass as an origin story) and did generate good sales of merchandise.

Then comes The Last Jedi....

It tanks at the boxoffice (only half the boxoffice of The Force Awakens), is rejected by the fanbase as being incoherent and not even following up on the stories set up in the previous film and merchandise sales have tanked too. Can one bad film really sink a franchise?

Maybe so. It feels like a combination of Star Wars fatigue from over-marketing of the franchise and the blowback from The Last Jedi being as bad as it was.
 
Joelist

Joelist

What ship is this?
Staff member
PussyGalore said:
I think the problem is that a lot of what's in the script doesn't make it onto the screen. I talked about this earlier in terms of "exposition" within a screenplay. I suspect that Abrams comes up with a script that is chock full of exposition explaining exactly what the hell is going on. He then shows that script to TPTB at Disney and they think it's cool because from their viewpoint it makes sense -- it's fully explained right there on the page. The problem comes in when Abrams translates his script to the screen. A hell of a lot of explanatory exposition gets lost in the process.

So with Leia's "magic carpet ride" in TLJ any sort of legit explanation as to why she's suddenly able to fly through space is gone. I'm sure it was there on the page of the original script, but moviegoers aren't reading a script, they're watching a two-dimensional movie that relies on dialogue to explain most of what's happening.

I'm not kidding. This is a real problem in Hollywood today. Scripts are written with heavy exposition that is used to explain what's going on so that the person reading the script will be sucked in as if they're reading an exciting novel. (This is a version of "breaking the fourth wall"; i.e. it lets the author of the script talk directly to the person reading the script as opposed to using character dialogue and basic camera direction to explain what is happening in the story. This shouldn't be confused with the acting version of "breaking the fourth wall" which is where a character talks directly to the camera.)

I submit that it's because of this method of script writing today that we now see so many movies that are flawed and downright unintelligible. Of course there are still good writers out there who give us clearly defined and understandable stories, like James Gunn of "Guardians" fame who Joelist pointed out awhile back. Unlike Abrams, Gunn not only understands how to write a script that will translate to the screen but he also respects the audience enough to make sure everything is explained in full detail right there on the screen. I'm starting to think that director/writers like Gunn are a dying breed though as proven by the cadre of losers who have given us nothing but dreck over the last decade or so.
Click to expand...

Nicely put. I would put the name Rian Johnson where you have Abrams as Abrams was not involved in The Last Jedi - Johnson wrote it and directed it. That does not excuse Abrams who has created a lot of incoherent nonsense in his own time (Star Trek Into Darkness for example). Plus I suspect the only reason The Force Awakens was not incoherent nonsense was Abrams had Lawrence Kasdan there writing with him.
 
Overmind One

Overmind One

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Staff member
Joelist said:
The weird thing is that they were actually in a good place after The Force Awakens. It did monster boxoffice, was generally liked by the Star Wars fan community (while they do acknowledge it was derivative they seem to give it a pass as an origin story) and did generate good sales of merchandise.

Then comes The Last Jedi....

It tanks at the boxoffice (only half the boxoffice of The Force Awakens), is rejected by the fanbase as being incoherent and not even following up on the stories set up in the previous film and merchandise sales have tanked too. Can one bad film really sink a franchise?

Maybe so. It feels like a combination of Star Wars fatigue from over-marketing of the franchise and the blowback from The Last Jedi being as bad as it was.
Click to expand...

This is the EXACT same trajectory as his Star Trek took. Good response at the "new and shiny" first outing, then everything that came after sucks. That is totally predictable. The very worst time to take a benchmark is right when something new comes out. It gives the false impression of rousing success. Its like basing your speculations of who will win by only looking at which horse came out of the gate first (rarely the case).

For me, predicting inevitable fail for ANYTHING created by JJ Abrams is easy to do. Same with Kurtzman.
 
PussyGalore

PussyGalore

Meow
Joelist said:
Nicely put. I would put the name Rian Johnson where you have Abrams as Abrams was not involved in The Last Jedi - Johnson wrote it and directed it. That does not excuse Abrams who has created a lot of incoherent nonsense in his own time (Star Trek Into Darkness for example). Plus I suspect the only reason The Force Awakens was not incoherent nonsense was Abrams had Lawrence Kasdan there writing with him.
Click to expand...

Great points. I should definitely have been more clear that I was speaking about the script writing problem in the abstract and not just in relation to TLJ. I did think about naming other director/producers individually but decided it was easier to put "cadre of losers who have given us nothing but dreck over the last decade or so" as a more simple reference to them.

No doubt you're right about Kasdan being a coherent influence of TFA. I suspect that is because he is "old school" and comes from an earlier generation of Hollywood writers that actually understand how a script translates to the screen. The fact that he's one of the writers for Solo is a good sign for the film I think.
 
Overmind One

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Joelist said:
Nicely put. I would put the name Rian Johnson where you have Abrams as Abrams was not involved in The Last Jedi - Johnson wrote it and directed it. That does not excuse Abrams who has created a lot of incoherent nonsense in his own time (Star Trek Into Darkness for example). Plus I suspect the only reason The Force Awakens was not incoherent nonsense was Abrams had Lawrence Kasdan there writing with him.
Click to expand...

JJ will probably not do any more Star Wars OR Star Trek. Good riddance!

https://www.cinemablend.com/new/Why...-Direct-Any-More-Star-Wars-Movies-118757.html
 
Overmind One

Overmind One

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I have The Last Jedi now in my collection in HD and I can rewind it at will or pause it. It looks beautiful, but the story is so bad. So very bad. :facepalm:. It is flawed in the same way Star Trek is flawed. Its like those GMO apples which are beautiful and red and shiny, but when you bite into them they are like a potato.

Leia flying through space...just...I can't.
 
Rac80

Rac80

The Belle of the Ball
I understand not even Ron Howard can save the Han Solo prequel!
 
Overmind One

Overmind One

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Staff member
PussyGalore said:
I was trying to stay optimistic and hoped it might actually be good. What have you heard about it?
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I have not yet seen it. I am hoping it will be good too. If JJ or his cronys have nothing to do with it, then it could be great like Rogue One. I will try and get it.
 
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