Resurrecting the Wooly Mammoth

[YJ02]

A documentary on the potential of cloning new Mammoths in Siberia from a 'fresh frozen' mammoth trunk

very interesting just for the idea of it...but this is also involved in 'the race to save the planet (from MMCC)"

Because they and other herbivores would prevent too much tree growth on the Siberian Tundra helping to keep the permafrost frozen

they plan on extracting the DNA and cloning a population of 100 Mammoths

but I do not see how that would be viable for breeding. sure they could produce offspring, but with them all being cloned from one mammoth,and therefore possessing whatever potentially harmful mutations it may have had, could lead to a defective population

I believe they could blend the DNA (not the proper term I am sure) with say Elephant DNA to create some 'half sibling' clones for more variation and therefore a greater potential for a viable and stable population

 

[Overmind One]

A documentary on the potential of cloning new Mammoths in Siberia from a 'fresh frozen' mammoth trunk

very interesting just for the idea of it...but this is also involved in 'the race to save the planet (from MMCC)"

Because they and other herbivores would prevent too much tree growth on the Siberian Tundra helping to keep the permafrost frozen

they plan on extracting the DNA and cloning a population of 100 Mammoths

but I do not see how that would be viable for breeding. sure they could produce offspring, but with them all being cloned from one mammoth,and therefore possessing whatever potentially harmful mutations it may have had, could lead to a defective population

I believe they could blend the DNA (not the proper term I ma sure) with say Elephant DNA to create some 'half sibling' clones for more variation and therefore a greater potential for a viable and stable population

I do not understand why they are doing this. Being able to is not a real reason.

 

[YJ02]

I do not understand why they are doing this. Being able to is not a real reason.

correct
however it cool it may be

a few reasons
1-its cool so lets do it

2-a proof of concept--put the science to a live experiment

3-as mentioned in related 'saving the permafrost' thread, some Russian MMCC scientists believe that the mammoth along with other animals can'save' the permafrost by destroying new trees via grazing (one thing i don't think they mentioned; wouldn't the methane emissions from such large herbivores offset any good hey may do by keeping the carbon frozen in the permafrost?)

4-there is a HUGE trade in ivory to China from everywhere. elephant tusk, rhino horn and yes, since the permafrost retreat, even mammoth bones that have been frozen in the permafrost are being sold to chinese ivory traders/carvers. mammoth tusks are highly valued as they are larger then anything else giving the carver far more volume/surface area in which to do his art. A tangential issue could be the no kill harvesting of mammoth tusk from any new herds created. That would be a large revenue stream to support their 'save the tundra' efforts= legal ivory

--------------------
what do you think about the notion that cloning from one individual and the high potential of creating a tainted and non viable herd from that one mammoth?

how about 'piggybacking'/splicing ( or whatever it is called) the mammoth dna into elephant embryo to create a more viable hybridized creature?

 

[heisenberg]

A documentary on the potential of cloning new Mammoths in Siberia from a 'fresh frozen' mammoth trunk

very interesting just for the idea of it...but this is also involved in 'the race to save the planet (from MMCC)"

Because they and other herbivores would prevent too much tree growth on the Siberian Tundra helping to keep the permafrost frozen

they plan on extracting the DNA and cloning a population of 100 Mammoths

but I do not see how that would be viable for breeding. sure they could produce offspring, but with them all being cloned from one mammoth,and therefore possessing whatever potentially harmful mutations it may have had, could lead to a defective population

I believe they could blend the DNA (not the proper term I ma sure) with say Elephant DNA to create some 'half sibling' clones for more variation and therefore a greater potential for a viable and stable population

lol I posted this very same thread

http://www.gatefans.net/gforums/threads/cloning.28626/

All they need do to is find a live dna from one of the frozen mammoth and then take those and then put those bits of cells in an empty egg. Then give it a electricity jolt to kick start the cell replication and and then impregnate one of the elephants

 

[heisenberg]

I do not understand why they are doing this. Being able to is not a real reason.

Because we can and humans are curious. We will push the boundaries of ethics and moral code. Also we are cocky bunch. However, the thing is cloning will become easier once we are able to map out the genome of any species that has gone extinct. Hell, we will be able to create our own species in the lab once we have the correct genome sequence. If we want to, we could even bring back the dinosaurs.

 

[heisenberg]

correct
however it cool it may be

a few reasons
1-its cool so lets do it

2-a proof of concept--put the science to a live experiment

3-as mentioned in related 'saving the permafrost' thread, some Russian MMCC scientists believe that the mammoth along with other animals can'save' the permafrost by destroying new trees via grazing (one thing i don't think they mentioned; wouldn't the methane emissions from such large herbivores offset any good hey may do by keeping the carbon frozen in the permafrost?)

4-there is a HUGE trade in ivory to China from everywhere. elephant tusk, rhino horn and yes, since the permafrost retreat, even mammoth bones that have been frozen in the permafrost are being sold to chinese ivory traders/carvers. mammoth tusks are highly valued as they are larger then anything else giving the carver far more volume/surface area in which to do his art. A tangential issue could be the no kill harvesting of mammoth tusk from any new herds created. That would be a large revenue stream to support their 'save the tundra' efforts= legal ivory

--------------------
what do you think about the notion that cloning from one individual and the high potential of creating a tainted and non viable herd from that one mammoth?

how about 'piggybacking'/splicing ( or whatever it is called) the mammoth dna into elephant embryo to create a more viable hybridized creature?

yeah apparently it's a penis stimulant. What bullshit . They like to use the horns as a aphrodisiac. They believe the same thing with Tigers and eat their balls. So stupid.

 

[YJ02]

lol I posted this very same thread

yeah, we seem to do a lot of that around here--especially with that 'search' bar up top and its 'usefulness'

All they need do to is find a live dna from one of the frozen mammoth and then take those and then put those bits of cells in an empty egg. Then give it a electricity jolt to kick start the cell replication and and then impregnate one of the elephants

this i have read before, on a theoretical article about 'cloning' dinosaurs and using animals like iguana or komodo dragons to cross with

thing is, in the thread i put up about saving the siberian permafrost and the role that any mammoth resurrection would play in it, they make it sound oh so simplistic to do "just get the dna and clone about 100 mammoths from it"

'race to save the planet' types tend to over simplify their 'solutions' and overdo the issues and 'facts' behind Man's destruction. this tact along with the hyper use of doom and gloom is what the MMCC people count on to obfuscate the issue and gain emotional support

 

[YJ02]

yeah apparently it's a penis stimulant. What bullshit . They like to use the horns as a aphrodisiac. They believe the same thing with Tigers and eat their balls. So stupid.

the traditional asian /chinese medicine is one market, however, there is a hell of a lot of money to be made from the very intricate and beautiful carvings that are made. Mammoth tusk gives them a much larger 'canvas' to create with

the use of dug up mammoth tusk (and bone) is legal in russia and as far as i know, if it is certified as such, a carving made from it can be bought by an american or any other nation that has an ivory ban

any cloned mamm's could have their tusks humanely harvested without harming the animal

they are growing organs from cells in labs now, i wonder of they could grown a tusk?

mammoth tusk carvings:

and OF COURSE you can buy them online! its "affordable"

https://www.ivoryandart.com/product-category/mammoth-ivory/

 

[Overmind One]

correct
however it cool it may be

a few reasons
1-its cool so lets do it

2-a proof of concept--put the science to a live experiment

3-as mentioned in related 'saving the permafrost' thread, some Russian MMCC scientists believe that the mammoth along with other animals can'save' the permafrost by destroying new trees via grazing (one thing i don't think they mentioned; wouldn't the methane emissions from such large herbivores offset any good hey may do by keeping the carbon frozen in the permafrost?)

4-there is a HUGE trade in ivory to China from everywhere. elephant tusk, rhino horn and yes, since the permafrost retreat, even mammoth bones that have been frozen in the permafrost are being sold to chinese ivory traders/carvers. mammoth tusks are highly valued as they are larger then anything else giving the carver far more volume/surface area in which to do his art. A tangential issue could be the no kill harvesting of mammoth tusk from any new herds created. That would be a large revenue stream to support their 'save the tundra' efforts= legal ivory

--------------------
what do you think about the notion that cloning from one individual and the high potential of creating a tainted and non viable herd from that one mammoth?

how about 'piggybacking'/splicing ( or whatever it is called) the mammoth dna into elephant embryo to create a more viable hybridized creature?

What makes you think that societies will allow harvesting of ivory from wooly mammoths if resurrected? Contrary to those who think that hunting for sport and collecting animal parts for trophies is acceptable, most of Humanity sees it as abhorrent.

 

[YJ02]

What makes you think that societies will allow harvesting of ivory from wooly mammoths if resurrected? Contrary to those who think that hunting for sport and collecting animal parts for trophies is acceptable, most of Humanity sees it as abhorrent.

show me where I said to kill them?

I didn't.

they could just do the same as they do with elephants and rhinos; sedate them and saw of the horn/tusks to keep poachers from shooting them just for the ivory.

those animals do not need the things; mammoths ranging on the tundra would not need them either.

I am confident that whatever russian and chinese firms are backing this venture (both the DNA piece and the 'save the permafrost; kill the trees' part) may have convinced those involved in both projects (as shown in the HBO VICE clip I put up in the Global warming thread--both projects serve the same goal) TO AGREE BEFORE HAND TO ALLOW THE COLLECTION OF TUSKS IN A NON KILL way if and when the mammoths are brought back

that is, it would not surprise me at all if much of the corporate backing behind these tow projects are those companies in russia that already sell mammoth tusk to china and the chinese companies that do the carving and selling

if you had clicked on the link of mammoth carving sales i put in above, you would have seen that carvings from mammoth ivory are allowed worldwide and by the UN to be sold and shipped. the sales of these carvings is also quite lucrative

 

[Overmind One]

show me where I said to kill them?

I didn't.

they could just do the same as they do with elephants and rhinos; sedate them and saw of the horn/tusks to keep poachers from shooting them just for the ivory.

those animals do not need the things; mammoths ranging on the tundra would not need them either.

I am confident that whatever russian and chinese firms are backing this venture (both the DNA piece and the 'save the permafrost; kill the trees' part) may have convinced those involved in both projects (as shown in the HBO VICE clip I put up in the Global warming thread--both projects serve the same goal) TO AGREE BEFORE HAND TO ALLOW THE COLLECTION OF TUSKS IN A NON KILL way if and when the mammoths are brought back

that is, it would not surprise me at all if much of the corporate backing behind these tow projects are those companies in russia that already sell mammoth tusk to china and the chinese companies that do the carving and selling

if you had clicked on the link of mammoth carving sales i put in above, you would have seen that carvings from mammoth ivory are allowed worldwide and by the UN to be sold and shipped. the sales of these carvings is also quite lucrative

Only a very certain type of person would be interested in buying these or be involved in collecting/selling them. About the same as the number of homicidal maniacs (percentage-wise). The sales of heroin and prostitutes is also lucrative. Just sayin...

 

[YJ02]

a very certain type of person would be interested in buying these

yes,very wealthy ones

The sales of heroin and prostitutes is also lucrative. Just sayin...

this has nothing to do with heroin or prostitutes... that is complete 'apples and oranges' there

there is nothing wrong,whatsoever, with using fossils to create art.

heroin sales and human trafficking are in no way equivalent to this...not even close! get a grip man!

how could you even consider making comparisons with those two completely illegal and very despicable actions with hand crafted art from material from a an animal that died thousands of years ago?

saying that using mammoth tusk is akin to some type of insanity is nearly the same as saying we should not use oil because it too, in part, came from dead animals

 

[Overmind One]

yes,very wealthy ones



this has nothing to do with heroin or prostitutes... that is complete 'apples and oranges' there

there is nothing wrong,whatsoever, with using fossils to create art.

The fossil itself is the art. If I take a real skull and carve it into a planter, you would appreciate that as art? I take a look at these very intricate and detailed ivory carvings, but I still see an elephant tusk. The elephant gets no credit.

heroin sales and human trafficking are in no way equivalent to this...not even close! get a grip man!

You gave the reason of it being "lucrative" as justification, so I included two other abhorrent, yet lucrative businesses.

how could you even consider making comparisons with those two completely illegal and very despicable actions with hand crafted art from material from a an animal that died thousands of years ago?

Huh? So when did this thread go from resurrecting mammoths for getting ivory, to talking about the dead mammoths? The vast majority of ivory carvings come from modern elephants which have been poached. Middle class wannabes would just as soon buy fake mammoth carvings which are just normal ivory from poached elephants. There is a reason ivory trade is illegal in the US and also China. https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/12/wildlife-watch-china-ivory-ban-goes-into-effect/

saying that using mammoth tusk is akin to some type of insanity is nearly the same as saying we should not use oil because it too, in part, came from dead animals

Not the same. Oil is a liquid comprised from oils of thousands of animals of different species. Ivory comes from a specific animal, and from individual animals.

The ivory trade is too big for discarded husks. By the time a wooly mammoth was old enough to shed a large tusk, it would be decades old. Who will "own" the mammoth DNA? How else will they be exploited? I don't give two shits about ivory collectors or ivory carvings. Most all the ivory that exists now was taken from live poached elephants.

Why is there a market for this stuff? The same people interested in this sort of product is the same who displays decapitated stuffed heads of animals on a wall as a "trophy", or hunts on safaris or buys shark fin soup. Rich, ignorant narcissists. I am 100% against this.

 

[Overmind One]

Because we can and humans are curious. We will push the boundaries of ethics and moral code. Also we are cocky bunch. However, the thing is cloning will become easier once we are able to map out the genome of any species that has gone extinct. Hell, we will be able to create our own species in the lab once we have the correct genome sequence. If we want to, we could even bring back the dinosaurs.

I disagree. The people doing this shit do not represent the thinking patterns of most of Humanity. Most humans on earth choose NOT to push the boundaries of certain things. Especially moral and ethics codes. Also, most of Humanity is NOT cocky, and most are NOT okay with anyone mapping out genomes of living beings, extinct or otherwise. We have no business thinking about creating new species or bringing back dinosaurs. Again, those wanting to do these things are a TINY group, and I mean smaller than what would fill a high school auditorium.

 

[Overmind One]

there is a HUGE trade in ivory to China from everywhere. elephant tusk, rhino horn and yes, since the permafrost retreat, even mammoth bones that have been frozen in the permafrost are being sold to chinese ivory traders/carvers. mammoth tusks are highly valued as they are larger then anything else giving the carver far more volume/surface area in which to do his art. A tangential issue could be the no kill harvesting of mammoth tusk from any new herds created. That would be a large revenue stream to support their 'save the tundra' efforts= legal ivory

China has banned all ivory. So, what sort of trade are you talking about?

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welco....google.com/&referrer=https://www.google.com/

EXCERPT:

2018 should be a better year for the African elephant, ending a decade of merciless poaching for their ivory tusks. Ten years ago, legal trade in elephant ivory resumed in China and as the economy boomed, poaching climbed from a few thousand elephants a year to 33,000 – one every 15 minutes. The reversal of that decision is likely to be the greatest single step toward reducing elephant poaching.

The history of the ivory trade has shown that rather than replace illegal trade, “regulated trade” enables vast laundering of poached ivory into retail circles, and open promotion greatly increases the market. Despite years of government effort to perfect a theoretically watertight system, traders were easily able to pass off ivory stolen from Africa as legitimate using paperwork provided by naïve or, in some cases, corrupt officials.

The bolded is exactly what I am talking about.

 

[heisenberg]

I disagree. The people doing this shit do not represent the thinking patterns of most of Humanity. Most humans on earth choose NOT to push the boundaries of certain things. Especially moral and ethics codes. Also, most of Humanity is NOT cocky, and most are NOT okay with anyone mapping out genomes of living beings, extinct or otherwise. We have no business thinking about creating new species or bringing back dinosaurs. Again, those wanting to do these things are a TINY group, and I mean smaller than what would fill a high school auditorium.

Hey, need I remind you that you guys got Donald Trump as president
Get used to it because people are brainless sheep. We have been pushing our luck since the dawn of civilization it self. Someone will find a way to exploit because it can be done.

 

[Overmind One]

Hey, need I remind you that you guys got Donald Trump as president
Get used to it because people are brainless sheep. We have been pushing our luck since the dawn of civilization it self. Someone will find a way to exploit because it can be done.

Which dawn of civilization? Archaeology shows that ancient human civilizations of the past (before Greece) formed civilizations that were in balance with nature. There is no evidence of environmental destruction. This is true of all ancient civilizations worldwide. And there were more pro-nature/pro-natural morals in place designed to respect Nature and all the creatures within it. In many ways, they were still more advanced than our modern technological civilizations.

The wooly mammoth went extinct. Trying to resurrect it makes no sense, and has no purpose, and is counter-nature. How about they bring back all the animals they extincted through over-hunting like the dodo bird or the Barbary lion? The wooly mammoth does not need to be resurrected.

 

[PussyGalore]

Why is there a market for this stuff? The same people interested in this sort of product is the same who displays decapitated stuffed heads of animals on a wall as a "trophy", or hunts on safaris or buys shark fin soup. Rich, ignorant narcissists. I am 100% against this.

To me it's the same as hunting an animal and then having its corpse stuffed and mounted so you can display it in your home. I used to see a lot of that when I was a kid but now displaying trophies of dead animals seems to be going out thankfully. In fact I can't remember the last time I saw a deer head on someone's wall.

*Don't get me wrong, I'm not against hunting to keep the deer population in check as it can be bad when it grows out of control. And it's also proper when dealing with nuisance and dangerous animals, like coyotes, bears and mountain lions. I'm not saying there should be a wholesale slaughter of them, but it's a fact of reality that our human habitat overlaps with theirs in some areas and there sometimes is no choice when dealing with them.

 

[Overmind One]

To me it's the same as hunting an animal and then having its corpse stuffed and mounted so you can display it in your home. I used to see a lot of that when I was a kid but now displaying trophies of dead animals seems to be going out thankfully. In fact I can't remember the last time I saw a deer head on someone's wall.

*Don't get me wrong, I'm not against hunting to keep the deer population in check as it can be bad when it grows out of control. And it's also proper when dealing with nuisance and dangerous animals, like coyotes, bears and mountain lions. I'm not saying there should be a wholesale slaughter of them, but it's a fact of reality that our human habitat overlaps with theirs in some areas and there sometimes is no choice when dealing with them.

A favorite restaurant I used to go to had deer heads on it's walls and that was it's trademark. Several years ago, the places on the wall where the heads used to be are covered in pictures of magnificent LIVING deer. The only thing left are the huge antlers at the entrance lobby, but there is a sign stating clearly that they were from a dead animal which died of natural causes. There is no way to clean up the story of an ivory carving. At the very least, ivory displayed as a polished tusk would be more acceptable than "art" made from it. This chair is made of real bull bones, and the leather on the chair came from the same animal.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/450148925226592134/

I find this piece of furniture disgusting and revolting.

 

[heisenberg]

Which dawn of civilization? Archaeology shows that ancient human civilizations of the past (before Greece) formed civilizations that were in balance with nature. There is no evidence of environmental destruction. This is true of all ancient civilizations worldwide. And there were more pro-nature/pro-natural morals in place designed to respect Nature and all the creatures within it. In many ways, they were still more advanced than our modern technological civilizations.

The wooly mammoth went extinct. Trying to resurrect it makes no sense, and has no purpose, and is counter-nature. How about they bring back all the animals they extincted through over-hunting like the dodo bird or the Barbary lion? The wooly mammoth does not need to be resurrected.

Like I said, this will lead to bringing back other species but the mammoth is a stepping stone in understanding how we can bring back extinct species. You got to start somewhere and this is a great area to start.