Star Trek: Picard
- Thread starter Lord Ba'al
- Start date
Seriously? Gary at Nerdrotic is one of the captains of The Fandom Menace. How do you know he is wrong on the Amazon Lord of the Rings show when it hasn't aired yet?
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
it is in the thread on the show, but,ok, i'll be your huckleberry
showrunners tweeted, a long time ago, that the show would be set in Tolkien's second age of middle earth
tolkien wasn't all that precise with his ages and how many yrs they were and they did vary
but, the show will be set anywhere from at least 6,000 yrs to a 1000 yrs BEFORE the events of HOBBIT
In the second age, there were no rings made until about halfway through the age. and most of the time, they were in possession of the peoples they were given to, and the one ring sat, unused, under guard by Suarons people in the Barad Dur
for much of the 2nd age, Sauron was a prisoner of the Numenoreans-that group of men who Aragorn is descended from
Sauron submitted to their power, and was brought to their island kingdom where he eventually caused ruin and devastation by his spreading of evil to the kings
so, yeah, before i get too far into it, their was yet no 'lord of the rings' just yet, in the time period this is set in
it does depend when they set their series. a large period of time to pick from. my guess is they will give backstory on the frst half of the second age and how the men of Numenor were gifted their island and their long life, then proceed with the story from the time Sauron is brought to Numenor
Sauron still had the power to assume whatever physical shape he wanted then, so he will appear in this as either an elf or a man (note-- tolkien NEVER stated that elves had pointy ears-that his a Peter Jackson thing. per his writings, elves and men were of similar appearance with elves being taller then men, on average)
so yeah, 'nerdface' or whoever, got that wrong when he made his video repeating the 'lotr's series on amazon'
a poor name choice. one that amazon is using as well for now, i think just to help keep hype going. many ppl are familiar with LOTRS but much fewer are familiar with the source material that this show will draw on
i really have no idea what they will call it though. of course, lotrs if they must, but that would be wrong as i explained
is that sufficient enough explanation?
it is in the thread on the show, but,ok, i'll be your huckleberry
showrunners tweeted, a long time ago, that the show would be set in Tolkien's second age of middle earth
tolkien wasn't all that precise with his ages and how many yrs they were and they did vary
but, the show will be set anywhere from at least 6,000 yrs to a 1000 yrs BEFORE the events of HOBBIT
In the second age, there were no rings made until about halfway through the age. and most of the time, they were in possession of the peoples they were given to, and the one ring sat, unused, under guard by Suarons people in the Barad Dur
for much of the 2nd age, Sauron was a prisoner of the Numenoreans-that group of men who Aragorn is descended from
Sauron submitted to their power, and was brought to their island kingdom where he eventually caused ruin and devastation by his spreading of evil to the kings
so, yeah, before i get too far into it, their was yet no 'lord of the rings' just yet, in the time period this is set in
it does depend when they set their series. a large period of time to pick from. my guess is they will give backstory on the frst half of the second age and how the men of Numenor were gifted their island and their long life, then proceed with the story from the time Sauron is brought to Numenor
Sauron still had the power to assume whatever physical shape he wanted then, so he will appear in this as either an elf or a man (note-- tolkien NEVER stated that elves had pointy ears-that his a Peter Jackson thing. per his writings, elves and men were of similar appearance with elves being taller then men, on average)
so yeah, 'nerdface' or whoever, got that wrong when he made his video repeating the 'lotr's series on amazon'
a poor name choice. one that amazon is using as well for now, i think just to help keep hype going. many ppl are familiar with LOTRS but much fewer are familiar with the source material that this show will draw on
i really have no idea what they will call it though. of course, lotrs if they must, but that would be wrong as i explained
is that sufficient enough explanation?
You think he made up the LOTR references himself? He didn't. All of the Access Media is referring to this as the Lord of the Rings show.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/13/arts/television/lord-of-the-rings-series-amazon.html
The details you posted are right on the money, but they are not making this for fans, they want yet another vehicle to make money on a la Game of Thrones. They may play footloose and fancy free with any canon, like they have been doing on everything else.
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
did you not see where i wrote that the source material on numenor has some areas that could be heavily fucked with?
there are passages in the stories of the downfall of numenor like 'the treachery of sauron convinced the king to abandon worshiping the valar and to build a temple to melkor where human sacrifices were made'
so yeah, just one area where they could make a got's styled 'blood fest' out of the vagueness of the passage and still be 'within bounds' of the source material
anther where a usurper king 'takes' his dead brothers wife -who is queen and 'forces her to marry'..and there is their 'sex'
they are committed to having it set in the 2nd age, so that is where it must be or they will violate their contract with the tolkien estate. i am sure their watchdog on set will make them aware of anything that is not fitting-like putting Frodo in the 2nd age.
the estate does not want to see the hobbit or lotrs revisited, they want the story that Tolkien was most proud of and the longest in the making, to be brought to life on screen (the silmarillion, what this story is apart of, was his 'lifes work'. publishing contracts basically forced him to pump out the Hobbit and LOTR's which he often referred to as 'distractions from my main work' to his friends and family)
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media is referring to it as lotr'sonprime series cause what else would they refer to it as? no other title has been released. so they are going with the reference people know
they also tweeted the 'rings stanzas' suggesting the time period being the latter 2nd age when the rings were made by the elves
again, this is all in the 'amz tolkien thread' (https://www.gatefans.net/gforums/th...-estate-planning-a-middle-earth-series.28686/) here, but ok, i'll post it again
including this map of middle earth TPTB's posted. all the place names are 2nd age, there are none of the 3rd age places on it
and the tweet announcing the setting:
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
no, just that he is doing no research of his own and just parroting what others are incorrectly stating
back to the thread topic, so does your doubting that i say he is wrong on the Tolkien show mean that he is right on PICARD and the 'need' for multi media to understand or get the backstory for PICARD?
i am thinking he is just once again looking for material to make a video for to get his likes, etc
no show or movie really needs you to read or book,etc to "get" what is going on. i am sure that like any show/film (yes even sw's) that PICARD will have enough info and detail self contained so that only those 'i got to know' type ppl will 'have to' read a comic or a novel.
reading off screen material will only add to the story if you want it so.
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there is little doubt though, that CBS is following DISNEY's example in this tact of 'maxing out' a franchise on screen and multi media
Hi!
I like Gary a lot and he has a valid point here.
First, keep in mind that I LIKE Star Trek 2009 and I LIKE The Force Awakens. With that said, both suffered from exactly what Gary mentions, namely that key plot and character elements are missing from the films but instead present in comics or novels or other such material.
For Star Trek 09, Nero as a character was essentially a blank piece of paper without the context that was in Countdown. Also the whole plot hole of where the Narada was for 20+ years after its encounter with USS Kelvin again needed the comics to fill in.
For The Force Awakens it is arguably worse. Without the Aftermath Trilogy and "The Force Awakens Visual Dictionary" a host of things small and great have no explanations (like the First Order, the Knights of Ren, the Resistance vis a vis the Republic and so on).
Remember Defiance? In that one you actually needed to play an online RPG to have any understanding of the world of the show. It ultimately killed the show.
I like Gary a lot and he has a valid point here.
First, keep in mind that I LIKE Star Trek 2009 and I LIKE The Force Awakens. With that said, both suffered from exactly what Gary mentions, namely that key plot and character elements are missing from the films but instead present in comics or novels or other such material.
For Star Trek 09, Nero as a character was essentially a blank piece of paper without the context that was in Countdown. Also the whole plot hole of where the Narada was for 20+ years after its encounter with USS Kelvin again needed the comics to fill in.
For The Force Awakens it is arguably worse. Without the Aftermath Trilogy and "The Force Awakens Visual Dictionary" a host of things small and great have no explanations (like the First Order, the Knights of Ren, the Resistance vis a vis the Republic and so on).
Remember Defiance? In that one you actually needed to play an online RPG to have any understanding of the world of the show. It ultimately killed the show.
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
so, why wouldn't Worf be in PICARD?
why the shock, with so many others returning from TNG and other shows, why not?
"wrap" clap board with sigs from actors and showrunners
michael dorn's (when compared to his previously known sig) is on it
bad part is this YTuber. "if Dorn is in it, will Worf be made up as Klingon from TNG or ST-D?"
seriously "trekcentral", are you retarded? do you see any other stylistic examples in PICARD trailers that remind you of ST-D? you know, like this pic of gold Lamé uniforms in what appears to be a gilded whorehouse? :
Trekcentral is clearly a fan of the 'disco'
why the shock, with so many others returning from TNG and other shows, why not?
"wrap" clap board with sigs from actors and showrunners
michael dorn's (when compared to his previously known sig) is on it
bad part is this YTuber. "if Dorn is in it, will Worf be made up as Klingon from TNG or ST-D?"
seriously "trekcentral", are you retarded? do you see any other stylistic examples in PICARD trailers that remind you of ST-D? you know, like this pic of gold Lamé uniforms in what appears to be a gilded whorehouse? :
Trekcentral is clearly a fan of the 'disco'
That IS a legit question though. The same dregs are involved in Picard as in STD, even if Alex Kurtzman is not the showrunner. The alternate license is still in place for Kurtzman, and the original complete license is separate. If ViacomCBS were to use the original license, then Kurtzman and Secret Hideout would not be able to cash in on Picard. I am also just as curious about the Klingons in Picard. If they change them, I will immediately reject the show. But there are other triggers which will do that for me as well.
seriously "trekcentral", are you retarded? do you see any other stylistic examples in PICARD trailers that remind you of ST-D? you know, like this pic of gold Lamé uniforms in what appears to be a gilded whorehouse? :
Trekcentral is clearly a fan of the 'disco'
That alternate license is the root of all evil happening in Star Trek. It will make or break this show.
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
but wouldn't the license issue affect more than just the appearance of Klingons?
in the trailer we see 'TNG and forward' style uniforms, and other familiarities that one would think would be involved in these license issues. like the look of Data and Seven of Nine and the Romulans. as well as the Borg Cube
back when i had posted that hopefully the show was being made in anticipation of the merger (because that is what business' do, they make things based on what their situation is/what they are in the process of acquiring far ahead of the finalized transaction/merger) then they hopefully had their 'facts' and visuals in accordance with Prime Trek
YES. Yes it would indeed, which is why I said there would be other triggers which could make me reject this show.
Think of it this way...many of the elements of the original license would have involved a significant payment from Paramount/Bad Robot to CBS. Now, it is in house. They could easily massage the costs of using licensed elements to make something like a uniform possible. But when it comes to stuff like ship designs, characters, locales and appearances of aliens, the more they use of the original license, the less goes to Kurtzman's Secret Hideout.
The problem is not with the licenses per se, the problem is that Kurtzman needs to use his deal on the alternate license for his production (and by extension Bad Robot) to profit from it. They have an active contract with Kurtzman to play out before the original license can be used by Paramount which is now on the same team as CBS where it used to be. It means they have to drop the Lower Decks show, the Section 31 show, and anything planned on the alternate license, or Kurtzman's contract gets extended.
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
didn't he already get extended by being 'promoted' ?
idk, it just doesn't seem to make sense that CBS would allow anyone to F around with a potential third rail like Picard (or any other loved character) further endangering their already troubled streamer
i just dont see CBS allowing already known characters-played by the original actors- to be radically changed in any way. they will truly and totally screw themselves if they do. messing with known and loved characters is a bigger issue for many ppl then changing the look of something with total unknowns involved (pike and spock exempted) as they did with ST-D
for me, even more then the the look of things, this is what made me turned off to the JJ Trek movies, the characters were not like TOS versions other then in name
i think the one test will be (other then the PICARD show itself) just how much they change the look and 'attitude' of ST-D in its next season
i watched some vids here and there that allude to some 'major change', other then their being in the future
i just hope no matter what ,it is the last season for st-d
as for kurtzman, if they pay him over and above- or, buy out his contract and replace it with a new one, then they could spend their way out of the st-d debacle
bury st-d and focus on the Trek Prime setting, look and attitude
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
Some people hoping for a return of Garak! hey why not? he is one of the top 10 (or so) fav Trek characters after all
lets make it a party-- Sisko can come out of the celestial temple, Quark and Rom and Nog can be buddies with Picard too
a scene-or scenes, with Picard and Garak would be interesting though
given Picard's experience with the Obsidian order and his whole light counting issue and Garaks soft conversion to Federation ways.
but, if anything what all these hopes and theories show is that people are very much in hunger for some real Trek to be back
lets make it a party-- Sisko can come out of the celestial temple, Quark and Rom and Nog can be buddies with Picard too
a scene-or scenes, with Picard and Garak would be interesting though
given Picard's experience with the Obsidian order and his whole light counting issue and Garaks soft conversion to Federation ways.
but, if anything what all these hopes and theories show is that people are very much in hunger for some real Trek to be back
Some people hoping for a return of Garak! hey why not? he is one of the top 10 (or so) fav Trek characters after all
lets make it a party-- Sisko can come out of the celestial temple, Quark and Rom and Nog can be buddies with Picard too
a scene-or scenes, with Picard and Garak would be interesting though
given Picard's experience with the Obsidian order and his whole light counting issue and Garaks soft conversion to Federation ways.
but, if anything what all these hopes and theories show is that people are very much in hunger for some real Trek to be back
I am for bringing Trek back. But NOT if it is using the alternate license or of any of Kurtzman's homies are involved in it. There needs to be a new Trek completely disconnected from anything and anyone who has ever worked with Kurtzman. A clean sheet purge.
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
well, lets hold out for all of us being pleasantly surprised
we will find out pretty soon
'early 2020' is not that far off
Jim of WVa
Well Known GateFan
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
this is nothing more than what we do here; conjecture, supposition, 'theorizing'
which is ok, but connected to this guy's overall negative attitude to over 90% of everything, and his need --like so many YTbrs for attention, adulation and validation, it kind of changes the whole nature of 'for fun' speculation like we do here
it is not just him, but so many on YT who do these doom and gloom things-or on the opposite side, those pumping up too much expectations of a new show/movie
it adds to the eventual reception by people has they may have been 'contaminated' to be either over negative or over positive in their view of the show/movie and forces them to react based on their preconceptions and to fulfilling preconceived prejudices-again good or bad- to a show before it even comes out
how about we just keep the theories at the just for fun level and wait for something to come out then critique it?
The bolded is a pussy way out of the situation, and is EXACTLY what the movie studios want. They don't care how they end up with your money, as long as they get it. They do NOT deserve any sort of compassion or a "second chance" with this absolute crap that is coming out. They should suffer and lose millions and be scolded and trolled online for doing things like they did in Star Trek Discovery, Star Wars The Last Jedi, Captain Marvel, Ghostbusters 2016, and what they are planning for Terminator, the MCU, Batwoman and the other new woke crap they are making. If you cave in and compromise, you get more of the same. Apologists and compromisers never are the engine of change.
Having said that, the reason there is a Fandom Menace and independent commentary is because the studios also have been manipulating (or buying) any dissenting sites to prevent people from finding out that what they are about to waste their money on is shit. Do you think Disney gives a shit if you don't like Galaxy's Edge because it has no Star Wars in it? In order for you to even be in Galaxy's Edge, you had to pay hundreds of dollars for the park entrance ticket, $25.00 for parking, and at least one $6.00 bottle of water and perhaps a $12.00 bag of popcorn. This new Star Wars movie coming out is not at all about the story or the characters, it is about repairing the Star Wars money machine they bought from George Lucas expressly for making profit. The woke movies are a strategy to suck in millennial money, not to make good art.
Honesty > Compromise. It is GOOD to have standards.
Doomcock loves the great stuff that deserves praise like The Expanse, Alita Battle Angel and the other stuff worthy of praise. He hates the stuff that sucks, and he is honest. I respect those who refuse to compromise. If I am expecting a thick cheese burger and fries, you can't bring me a bologna sandwich and a bag of potato chips and expect me to be okay with it. But compromisers and apologists just shrug and try and find nice things to say about their bologna sandwich and chips.
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well, lets hold out for all of us being pleasantly surprised
we will find out pretty soon
'early 2020' is not that far off
We did that with Discovery and look how that turned out.
Thankfully, we can get some advance info and watch the development of the show beforehand. I am talking a wait and see approach too, but I am not going to be surprised. I would rather not be UNpleasantly surprised.
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
so he watches two things, good for him