Star Trek: Picard

[Overmind One]

idk, whom would be acceptable? is there a "pope" of star trek?

No, no pope. But the control of the canon continuity for the fans of Star Trek have always been the fans, not the writers. They could make new canon, as long as anything in the new canon was consistent with what came before it OR explained any changes to it. There are many examples of this in all of the real Star Trek shows all the way to the end of Enterprise and within all the movies. Even the fan films and projects stick to canon. Abrams broke that continuity, but at least he tried to set his Trek in an alternate timeline. Unfortunately, the universe he created for that alternate timeline broke all of what was already canon even in that alternate timeline. The way Kirk became Captain, the relationship between Uhura and Spock, the Enterprise being built on the ground instead of Space Dock, lots of stuff. Discovery is a complete disconnect from everything Star Trek. This Picard show seems promising, because it may offer explanation for the events which led up to it. Even though the Romulan home planet destruction was not part of original canon Trek (it was part of kelvin Trek), it may be explained and preserve continuity in the Canon universe it was supposed to have taken place in. But mainly, the writes and showrunners do NOT get to dictate canon or erase it or put it into books and games and cartoons like they do in Star Wars.

 

[YJ02]

No, no pope. But the control of the canon continuity for the fans of Star Trek have always been the fans, not the writers. They could make new canon, as long as anything in the new canon was consistent with what came before it OR explained any changes to it. There are many examples of this in all of the real Star Trek shows all the way to the end of Enterprise and within all the movies. Even the fan films and projects stick to canon. Abrams broke that continuity, but at least he tried to set his Trek in an alternate timeline. Unfortunately, the universe he created for that alternate timeline broke all of what was already canon even in that alternate timeline. The way Kirk became Captain, the relationship between Uhura and Spock, the Enterprise being built on the ground instead of Space Dock, lots of stuff. Discovery is a complete disconnect from everything Star Trek. This Picard show seems promising, because it may offer explanation for the events which led up to it. Even though the Romulan home planet destruction was not part of original canon Trek (it was part of kelvin Trek), it may be explained and preserve continuity in the Canon universe it was supposed to have taken place in. But mainly, the writes and showrunners do NOT get to dictate canon or erase it or put it into books and games and cartoons like they do in Star Wars.

nope

i think you need to discuss this with another 'rabid' ST fan
seems there are a lot of ST canon books, comic and a canon video game

maybe you can take it up with this Sher?

 

[Overmind One]

nope

i think you need to discuss this with another 'rabid' ST fan
seems there are a lot of ST canon books, comic and a canon video game

maybe you can take it up with this Sher?

Nope. Just how many "rabid" fans who also watched the show from the very first episode NEW on TV in 1966 are there? The NuTrek fans consider Abrams Trek canon too, so what? They are not real fans IMO. I was watching Star Trek since before they were even born. I met Roddenberry, Majel. all the TOS characters, all the TNG characters, done the conventions, etc etc. I stopped short of cosplay. I even lived with one of the most iconic Trek women shown, and I still have her cat! I am not going to check with anyone on Trek canon, but I am available if they want to check with me.

 

[Lord Ba'al]

The fact of watching the show on TV when it first aired has no bearing on someone's ability to be a fan of Star Trek or on the consideration of whether someone could be considered a "real" fan. Neither does meeting the actors or living with one or owning a cat. Someone born hundreds of years from now when we have all long turned to dust can be a Star Trek fan, assuming the material is still available then. Also you are generalizing (as you often do) when you say nutrek fans find this or that. You don't know, nor can you ever know. Don't speak for them as though you're the allknowing god of nutrek fandom. Even the term nutrek fan in itself is loaded with assumptions and generalization. Everyone has their own insights and opinions. There is no collective nutrek hivemind, just like there isn't a collective canontrek hivemind.

 

[Overmind One]

The fact of watching the show on TV when it first aired has no bearing on someone's ability to be a fan of Star Trek or on the consideration of whether someone could be considered a "real" fan. Neither does meeting the actors or living with one or owning a cat. Someone born hundreds of years from now when we have all long turned to dust can be a Star Trek fan, assuming the material is still available then. Also you are generalizing (as you often do) when you say nutrek fans find this or that. You don't know, nor can you ever know. Don't speak for them as though you're the allknowing god of nutrek fandom. Even the term nutrek fan in itself is loaded with assumptions and generalization. Everyone has their own insights and opinions. There is no collective nutrek hivemind, just like there isn't a collective canontrek hivemind.

Okay on all that, but canon is canon is canon. You can't just arbitrarily stick things into it and say it is something it isn't, even if you inherit it from the original writers. There is no mycelial network in space, period. Science does not say there is one, and Star Trek never said there was one. Discovery claims it is a prequel, but it just isn't. Nothing in it carries into the Star Trek future which makes it non-canon. Spock does not have a half-sister, no starship went to the mirror universe before the Enterprise, no tribbles were known to the Federation before the triticale incident at K9, there are no time crystals, no time suit, no Red Angel, no windshields on starships, etc etc etc.

These things are verifiably not canon. And also, I stand on my statement that a "real" fan is made by DECADES of devotion and watching a show. A newbie fan is just not as credible as somebody who has been watching from day one, which is more than 50 years. A Doctor Who fan from the beginning is a real fan as compared to a new fan whose first experience is with woke Dr Who from Season 11. I know many of the NuTrek fans who love Discovery want to think of themselves as Star Trek fans, but the thing they like is not Star Trek and is not canon, except by declaration.

 

[Overmind One]

I've been a Star Trek fan for 36 years Overmind One. Am I not a real fan because I wasn't around for the 1960s?

Of course you are a real fan. 36 years! If you started watching only Abrams fake Trek from the beginning, that would be 2009 forward which is only 10-11 years. I acknowledge that there is an audience (albeit tiny in comparison) to NuTrek and the Kelvin films and Discovery. I do not say these people are not fans. But they are fans of the NuTrek which is provably not the same creation as Roddenberry Trek, and does not share any of it's canon. All it shares is the label of the show and some character names. There was a very implausible attempt to stitch the NuTrek events into the existing canon, and it did not stick with longtime fans. The NuTrek fans see it as Star Trek, and they are none the wiser because they have a disdain for original Trek style. As such, they are not "real" fans in the sense of being "real Star Trek" fans.

 

[YJ02]

Okay on all that, but canon is canon is canon

right but you want to be the one to define canon and you are in no position to. the people or company that owns the show and its "lore" are the ones who define it, good or bad

 

[YJ02]

well here is doomcock's (and his sucking partner) take on PICARD trailer

as expected--negativity all around

, so what if Troi and Riker aren't in the show until last minute? if they are in it by the time it airs then they are in it

the ppl like doomcock and his suck up partner here is that they are professional shit birdss who have never had an original idea of their won. or they have and were turned down

so bitch and complain about other people--full time, is their gig

 

[Overmind One]

right but you want to be the one to define canon and you are in no position to. the people or company that owns the show and its "lore" are the ones who define it, good or bad

I can't define canon for Star Trek! But the new showrunners can't re-define it either, any more than a future new Governor of Pennsylvania can claim your state is a blue state on the west coast just because he wants it to be. It is what it is. And no, the Star Wars notion of "Well, if the owners of the IP say it's canon, then it is!" makes it true or okay. Or, that some man wearing a dress claims he is a woman makes him one.

 

[YJ02]

But the new showrunners can't re-define

so, you wont or cant define canon yet you can say what re-defines it?
-----------------------------------------------------
well, how about that 5 hr doomcock video?

he states "patrick Stewart looks and sounds old" well no shit dumbcock, no shit

 

[YJ02]

well here is doomcock's (and his sucking partner) take on PICARD trailer

as expected--negativity all around

, so what if Troi and Riker aren't in the show until last minute? if they are in it by the time it airs then they are in it

the ppl like doomcock and his suck up partner here is that they are professional shit birdss who have never had an original idea of their won. or they have and were turned down

so bitch and complain about other people--full time, is their gig

did you here the bit where he says PICARD will be just like the wizard of oz. with Picard's playing the lion with B4 (or whoever) as tin man ,and this girl in trouble as Dorothy?

stupid

 

[Overmind One]

so, you wont or cant define canon yet you can say what re-defines it?
-----------------------------------------------------
well, how about that 5 hr doomcock video?

he states "patrick Stewart looks and sounds old" well no shit dumbcock, no shit

I can give you an example of an attempt at re-defining canon: transwarp beaming. To allow for that Abrams tack-on, you have to fundamentally change what transporters can do in the Star Trek universe. You have to remove range limitations, you have to change the rules of warp and also ignore the fact that all ships traveling at warp are surrounded by a warp bubble which is not in normal space. Then there is the portable transporter, which in the TOS time frame would be impossible because the power supply would not be portable. There is the tribble, which is not known to the Federation in the time of the events of the 2009 movie. In Discovery, they show Klingons with cloaks, when the Romulans have not given cloaking technology to them yet in the timeline. They changed the entire culture of the Klingons into something other than they had been in ALL other Star Trek shows. There are dozens of things in the NuTrek shows that either do not belong or are wrong. But only if you already know the canon inside and out would you see it. How would you like to see everyone in Star Wars dressed in Jedi robes? How about a Padawan on the Jedi Council? How about seeing a Bantha on the screen but hearing it's rider refer it as a Sith? This is what is happening in Star Trek, and it is not okay and is not canon.

 

[Overmind One]

well here is doomcock's (and his sucking partner) take on PICARD trailer

as expected--negativity all around

, so what if Troi and Riker aren't in the show until last minute? if they are in it by the time it airs then they are in it

the ppl like doomcock and his suck up partner here is that they are professional shit birdss who have never had an original idea of their won. or they have and were turned down

so bitch and complain about other people--full time, is their gig

Do you even watch these people's videos? They are in the Fandom Menace and they are true fans. More loyal, more demanding fans WITH STANDARDS which are loved by the longtime fandom. I have a lot of respect for fans with standards. Without people who complain when quality falls below those standards, they just keep going lower and lower until the rest of the casual viewers themselves start to complain and then it is too late. SGU fans were like those people, and so are Discovery fans and fans of the NuTrek which Abrams and Kurtzman made. Dumbed down fake Trek for the mainstream. Doomcock is about as original as YouTubers get, and Gary from Nerdrotic has been selling comics longer than there was an internet and has been putting out videos for years. He does livestreams from ComicCon and places like Galaxy's Edge and has inside connections at many of the studios.

Complaining about stuff that warrants complaining is a good thing. Better than being a wuss who accepts everything without question.

 

[Atlantis]

It still feels like Kuntzmen and abrams universe to me. The dialogue spoken by some of the character sounds weird and not well acted. There is no emotion in the dialogue at all.

At least with Patrick stewart, despite his old age at least he expresses some emotion.

What do you guys think? "sometimes, I worry you've forgotten who you are....."We do not"... I mean c'mon seriously is that the best they could come up with?

 

[YJ02]

Do you even watch these people's videos? They are in the Fandom Menace and they are true fans. More loyal, more demanding fans WITH STANDARDS which are loved by the longtime fandom. I have a lot of respect for fans with standards. Without people who complain when quality falls below those standards, they just keep going lower and lower until the rest of the casual viewers themselves start to complain and then it is too late. SGU fans were like those people, and so are Discovery fans and fans of the NuTrek which Abrams and Kurtzman made. Dumbed down fake Trek for the mainstream. Doomcock is about as original as YouTubers get, and Gary from Nerdrotic has been selling comics longer than there was an internet and has been putting out videos for years. He does livestreams from ComicCon and places like Galaxy's Edge and has inside connections at many of the studios.

Complaining about stuff that warrants complaining is a good thing. Better than being a wuss who accepts everything without question.

so saying something like "Stewart looked and sounds old" is a perfectly good criticism to the trailer when it should be well known THAT HE IS old? How is criticizing a person's age any legit critique of a show?

these two were just making shit up to fill their video. all to get more views and likes. Are their videos monetized?

no i have not watched every video dumbcock has made, but from what i have watched he seems to never have anything good to say about anything.

maybe he should just give up on the genre if he despises it so much

 

[Overmind One]

so saying something like "Stewart looked and sounds old" is a perfectly good criticism to the trailer when it should be well known THAT HE IS old? How is criticizing a person's age any legit critique of a show?

these two were just making shit up to fill their video. all to get more views and likes. Are their videos monetized?

no i have not watched every video dumbcock has made, but from what i have watched he seems to never have anything good to say about anything.

maybe he should just give up on the genre if he despises it so much

The Fandom Menace speaks highly of The Orville, The Expanse, movies like Alita: Battle Angel, and other great shows and movies. Nothing Star Trek currently falls into the great category or even the good category. It is rightfully getting dragged by these YouTubers and the majority of the Star Trek fanbase. Doomcock loves The Orville and The Expanse.

 

[YJ02]

The Fandom Menace speaks highly of The Orville, The Expanse, movies like Alita: Battle Angel, and other great shows and movies. Nothing Star Trek currently falls into the great category or even the good category. It is rightfully getting dragged by these YouTubers and the majority of the Star Trek fanbase. Doomcock loves The Orville and The Expanse.

you seem to hold doomdick in high esteem; how is he any better then you or us? just another guy with a camera imo

 

[YJ02]

oh @Tripler i'm sorry, are you really doomcock?

you seem quite taken aback at my not liking him

 

[Joelist]

I'm split - I like Gary and am more ambivalent about Doomcock. As to Picard I can hope but if it is still on the Paramount license it will be rubbish because of the restrictions.

 

[Overmind One]

you seem to hold doomdick in high esteem; how is he any better then you or us? just another guy with a camera imo

He is a YouTuber with a decent following. Does your YouTube channel do better? How about mine? Thought not. He is creative, outspoken, and brave enough to put videos out every week. He is entertaining as well. I don't like it when he has obviously been drinking and comes out with a disjointed video. I am also not a fan of his co-chats with Gary from Nerdrotic where they go on for hours to get Superchats (donations). But he is consistent and I am totally in alignment with his views on both Star Trek and Star Wars and to some extent, the MCU. He is not deserving of the vitriol you want to give him. I would throw that at access media shills from Comicbook.com (CBS), Screenrant, Fansided and many others who are okay being paid shills for mediocre material.