General Discussion & Recap/Review Thread: SGU Episode 09 - "Visitation"

SFTech

GateFans Noob
You deserve a big round of applause.

Yes you.

Everyone on this forum that still has the gag reflex to watch SGU, you deserve a big round of applause. I personally just can't do it any more. My only updates on SGU are reading the reviews here. Thanks for all you do!

SGU= Stargateuniverse Goes Under....do to lack of writting, do to lack of scifi, do to eating too much pig brains on seaweed crackers, do to stupid flash backs, do to taking the fans for granted, do to...fill in the blank

Thanks for reading my rant.

SFTech
 

shavedape

Well Known GateFan
I watched "Visitation" and when it was over all I had to say was: "I shaved my Bieber for this?" Talk about an hour of my life that I'll never get back, shit. What a fuckin' bore!
 
WHY do SGU fans continue to try to explain plot holes that the writers were too lazy/incapable of closing for these episodes? In seasons 1.0 and 1.5, SGU fans were coming up with all sorts of explanations for stuff that made no sense in those episodes. I would see these explanations on GW and on other forums stated as though they were canon or "official". What makes you think that TJ is a "highly trained medic"? Medics are NOT highly trained, just trained in field medicine and triage to some degree. Thats why there are medics and DOCTORS. Whats to say the SGC hasnt been pulling her in via the comm stones for further training? Well, the WRITERS perhaps? There is nothing to suggest that anyone has been training for anything using the stones.

What happened to the stone "hiccups" that were happening in season 1? You know, where the communication was interrupted unpredictably? Why have those stones been used for sex and clubbing and signing divorce papers? No explanations for that stuff? Sorry to be such a killjoy, but you are trying to do the job that the writers are supposed to do...tell the story.

Yes, she's a medic, so she's trained in field medicine and triage, which means she should reasonably be able to recognize "Hey, this dude looks like he died from a huge blow to the head!" or "Hey, this dude froze to death!" and react accordingly (i.e. he's dead, Jim).

There really is nothing to suggest that either people are or aren't stoning to Earth for more training. Really, it'd be a smart and productive idea for SGC to do just that, now that these 60-odd people are stuck half a universe away and may not be able to rely on outside help in a crisis.

Who ever said I agreed with how they habitually used the stones for sex, drugs and rock-n-roll? I'm not even going to try explaining that, because it's forced and stupid. I'm glad they finally had someone (namely Eli) call others out about it on screen; it shows that at least somebody has grown up and realized the moral abhorrence of the whole idea.


Um, please re-read my above paragraph. If there were such personnel aboard the ship, then they would be performing the job of the biochemists and whatever other specialties they have. Not training TJ. If there were a biochemist with a PhD aboard, they would be the ship's biochemist, they would not train TJ (or be qualified to train her). Why even try to explain for them? You are making this up because the show doesnt make sense to you either...your reaction to plot holes is to explain them away instead of being angry that they exist in the first place. Thats probably not healthy!

Oh, sorry, I prefer to give a show the benefit of the doubt. What a concept! :roll:

Do they have to cram every single little mundane environmental detail into the script? I bet that even if they did, then you'd still complain that they spend too much time on explaining and not enough on action.

They can have a biochemist on board without having them as a named/central main character. TJ's still the one in charge of medical stuff in general, and is probably a jerk for taking the credit for something she didn't personally develop.

Again, as you so gladly pointed out, this is theory -- but are we all really so dumb that we need every single little detail spelled out on the screen?


Now, you have to wonder what the Lucian Alliance would find so interesting about this "signal"...how could finding it or discovering its origins be helpful to them? We know what the mission of the ship is, and now that we do, it makes you wonder why so many aliens and entities seem to want this ship. Cant they find the signal with their own ships? Why would the Faith aliens send these reanimated people back to Destiny in their repaired shuttle? Why not send them to Earth?

Please stop trying to create excuses for these awful, lazy writers...they arent worth your creative energy. :)

There's still a whole hell of a lot that they haven't gotten to exploring, finding and comprehending about and on board Destiny. I'm definitely expecting a ton of technological deus ex machinae to rear their eldritch heads in the process. (That is, if they get the chance.)

It looks like the Lucian Alliance and all the other Big Bads subscribe to the theory that knowledge is power -- and given the knowledge Destiny was sent to discover, they hope to attain godly power by it. Besides, if you think about it, Destiny's been going at it for millions of years, giving its databases a huge head start over somebody starting from scratch. Knowing, however, is only half the battle, assuming puny mortal minds are even capable of comprehending something on that scale.
 

shavedape

Well Known GateFan
There really is nothing to suggest that either people are or aren't stoning to Earth for more training...

Oh, sorry, I prefer to give a show the benefit of the doubt. What a concept! :roll: ...

Do they have to cram every single little mundane environmental detail into the script?...

They can have a biochemist on board without having them as a named/central main character. TJ's still the one in charge of medical stuff in general, and is probably a jerk for taking the credit for something she didn't personally develop...

Again, as you so gladly pointed out, this is theory -- but are we all really so dumb that we need every single little detail spelled out on the screen?...

Yo! TJ is a mutha fucken rock star with the scalpel and shit. She got that Associates degree from mutha fucken SG-University, yo!

Get real playah, no, they don't have to show us every little piss ant detail but they do have to show us SOMETHING. They ain't showed TJ stoning to Earth to take a cake making class let alone a crash course in mutha fucken Brain Surgery 101 but somehow the bitch be diagnosing shit left and right like she mutha fucken Dr. House in Space. Besides, a weekend crash course ain't gonna help her much since we're talking YEARS of study in specialized fields. Amazing that they have her doing mutha fucken micro-biology with her own personal Cray mutha fucken laptop computer like she Bill Gates on crack, yo! And we're supposed to swallow that shit like it's mutha fucken Dom Perignon champagne? Aw, hells no!

Listen playah, yall working too hard to make excuses for this sorry piece of shit show. The viewers shouldn't have to fill in the gaps, that's the writers job. You can float those fancy ideas you have about characters in the background who have all these mutha fucken super science degrees all day long but at the end of the day, playah, if there were such super smart mutha fuckas chillin' up in that rust bucket those mutha fuckas would be in a lead role and TJ would be serving mutha fucken drinks up in the observation lounge while Lt James dances on a brass pole to a White Snake song.

And for every argument you can make about there being some specialized mutha fucka dispensing advice to a glorified candy striper I can give you ten more disproving your hypothesis. Stop being an apologist for this piece of shit show, it just makes you look desperate and desperate ain't cool, you dig playah?

Wurd!
 

tetrion

GateFans Noob
There's a reason why the Ancients abandoned the Density, and if it was anything decent they would have pursued it. Now something as monumental as "God Signal" would have SOMETHING in the Atlantis DATABASE. The thing about it is that there's hasn't been a mention about it at all. So either the writers forgot about it or there's nothing about it in the database. The whole point is that the Ancient couldn't give a rats about pursuing it, and just abandoned the Density all together, so why should we.

Secondly, the whole concept of this so called 'God signal' irks me to no extent. The way the show is approaching it is that some powerful, superior spiritual force created the universe. The problem is that the Ancients themselves don't believe in GOD, but rather SCIENCE. In fact they broke away specifically from the ORI because of it. Why the heck would they build a spaceship to search it out??? I guess I just fell into another gaping plothole the size of the galactic rim again...
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Ah HAHAHAHA

Yo! TJ is a mutha fucken rock star with the scalpel and shit. She got that Associates degree from mutha fucken SG-University, yo!

Get real playah, no, they don't have to show us every little piss ant detail but they do have to show us SOMETHING. They ain't showed TJ stoning to Earth to take a cake making class let alone a crash course in mutha fucken Brain Surgery 101 but somehow the bitch be diagnosing shit left and right like she mutha fucken Dr. House in Space. Besides, a weekend crash course ain't gonna help her much since we're talking YEARS of study in specialized fields. Amazing that they have her doing mutha fucken micro-biology with her own personal Cray mutha fucken laptop computer like she Bill Gates on crack, yo! And we're supposed to swallow that shit like it's mutha fucken Dom Perignon champagne? Aw, hells no!

Listen playah, yall working too hard to make excuses for this sorry piece of shit show. The viewers shouldn't have to fill in the gaps, that's the writers job. You can float those fancy ideas you have about characters in the background who have all these mutha fucken super science degrees all day long but at the end of the day, playah, if there were such super smart mutha fuckas chillin' up in that rust bucket those mutha fuckas would be in a lead role and TJ would be serving mutha fucken drinks up in the observation lounge while Lt James dances on a brass pole to a White Snake song.

And for every argument you can make about there being some specialized mutha fucka dispensing advice to a glorified candy striper I can give you ten more disproving your hypothesis. Stop being an apologist for this piece of shit show, it just makes you look desperate and desperate ain't cool, you dig playah?

Wurd!

LMAO!!!!:rotflmao::laughing::rotflmao::laughing:
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Just LOL! But I like you.

Yes, she's a medic, so she's trained in field medicine and triage, which means she should reasonably be able to recognize "Hey, this dude looks like he died from a huge blow to the head!" or "Hey, this dude froze to death!" and react accordingly (i.e. he's dead, Jim).

But in Pathogen, she was analyzing electromicrographs of blood components and determining who could go back to duty. A few months ago, she was collecting medicinal herbs on an alien planet to make medicine, and not too long before that she made anesthesia from alien venom. Cmon, dude...you are suspending a LOT of belief here. :)

There really is nothing to suggest that either people are or aren't stoning to Earth for more training. Really, it'd be a smart and productive idea for SGC to do just that, now that these 60-odd people are stuck half a universe away and may not be able to rely on outside help in a crisis.

LOL. By the same logic, then there is nothing to suggest that either people are or arent stoning to Earth to do more clubbing and drinking and booty calls. The SGC in SGU is okay with all of that, you know. :roll:

Who ever said I agreed with how they habitually used the stones for sex, drugs and rock-n-roll? I'm not even going to try explaining that, because it's forced and stupid. I'm glad they finally had someone (namely Eli) call others out about it on screen; it shows that at least somebody has grown up and realized the moral abhorrence of the whole idea.

Yes, I agree with that. Its one of the reasons I thought Awakenings was okay.

Oh, sorry, I prefer to give a show the benefit of the doubt. What a concept! :roll:

Do they have to cram every single little mundane environmental detail into the script? I bet that even if they did, then you'd still complain that they spend too much time on explaining and not enough on action.

The mundane details are all thats left when they write this show! The real science and adventure and action is nowhere to be found. I have to know which parts of Chloe's body are turning into fish flesh. I have to know that Brody needed to fix the still on the ship, and that Eli's mom is sick. When do we find out what type of engines this ship has? How does it convert star gases into power? What is the range of its sensors? How big is it? How many stargates have been detected? The majority of the show is a collection of vapid drama scenes and mundane details, and magical visionary religious stuff unworthy of being taken seriously.

They can have a biochemist on board without having them as a named/central main character. TJ's still the one in charge of medical stuff in general, and is probably a jerk for taking the credit for something she didn't personally develop.

Again, as you so gladly pointed out, this is theory -- but are we all really so dumb that we need every single little detail spelled out on the screen?

No, having a biochemist on the ship would not be something that they could just ignore and have TJ play the role. Nope. If there is a biochemist there, they should be in that medical bay. Its the reason Brody and Volker are in the control room and on the bridge...their specialties qualified them for that. TJ is most likely the only person on board with any medical training AT ALL, which is why she is doing what she does. But these writers are too dumb to keep her consistent or to make her believable in that role, so even dumber viewers need to be watching so that it slips pass their awareness. Sharper viewers will be (and are) put off by the utter ridiculousness of it.

There's still a whole hell of a lot that they haven't gotten to exploring, finding and comprehending about and on board Destiny. I'm definitely expecting a ton of technological deus ex machinae to rear their eldritch heads in the process. (That is, if they get the chance.)

Mid December....:)

It looks like the Lucian Alliance and all the other Big Bads subscribe to the theory that knowledge is power -- and given the knowledge Destiny was sent to discover, they hope to attain godly power by it. Besides, if you think about it, Destiny's been going at it for millions of years, giving its databases a huge head start over somebody starting from scratch. Knowing, however, is only half the battle, assuming puny mortal minds are even capable of comprehending something on that scale.

Really? Then why didnt the Ori or the Goa'uld or the Nox or the Asgard or the Furlings or anyone else send ships of their own (which are FAR more advanced than Destiny) to investigate? You refuse to see that almost everything in this show was created to facilitate drama and interpersonal relationships, and that the show was forced to change in season 2 because of the horrible ratings slide of season 1? Why cant you see that season 2 is the result of being forced to suddenly change direction of the writing and tone to save the show? They didnt change it enough. They ruined the characters and they shredded the canon, and none of it is working.

But I wont spray graffiti on your rainbow just yet. Perhaps it will survive this!
 

ComicDiva

GateFans Noob
I am disappointed in this episode but I confess I did like parts of it. I liked for instance the mystery built around the returnees. Who were they, how they got there, were they actually evil. I didn't think it was a boring episode because in general I like these kinds of stories. There's a mystery, we get clues, we have to solve the puzzle.

I just thought it didn't make a lick a sense.

How can Rush, Eli and Scott "search thoroughly" the shuttle and not find that fucking kino? Lt. McBoobs just casually comes by at the end and tells Eli, hey, looky what I stumbled upon. That kino was supposed to be the first thing they found and checked out.

Why did the "aliens" bring back those people? I wish they could tie this to the discovery of the hidden signal, maybe even have Cain talk to Rush some more because that was a pretty good scene, and try to steer him away from discovering the source of the signal. But no, Cain was more busy comfortin TJ about her ghost-alien-baby. What is supremely ironic for me is that at the end he tells her "Ya gaht tah BELIEHVE!"

Motherfucker you believed and you died! TWICE! I think TJ should stick to her cynicism. It's healthier.

And for the end, look, I'm no fan of Chloe. Lord knows I have always had issues with her. But I don't want her to DIEEEE. I want her to be written BETTER. That being said, why is she being set up for an execution? All she has done since she got there powers or whatever they are is HELP. She's never hurt nobody, she never posed a threat. Why are we talking about killing the poor girl? Can't they analyze some tissue? Get some researchers from Earth? Seriously, it feels like they just forgot about her there, didn't make any effort whatsoever to prevent her transformation, and no for no reason other than overblown drama, people are coming by telling her she's gonna die soon. Eli is having her record suicide notes, Greer says he's gonna be the one to shoot her.

What the fuck!? Do SOMETHING to try to save this girl.
 
Amen to ComicDiva's post. Do something to save her, fools! Good lord, the vultures are circling already ...



@ Overmind:

No rainbow, just a ray of hope. :P

Hell, every show is going to require you to suspend disbelief. Yes, what they're talking about in terms of TJ's skills is overblown for a medic. By this point, they should just retcon her as being a real doctor and then maybe it might make sense.

Again, though, people's skills are not static. If you're stuck far away from any outside help, you're going to work damn hard at building your knowledge so you're more self-sufficient and more likely to survive, right? The characters have had nigh on a year (in story) on that ship to react to a high-pressure situation. Sure, they still act like idiots, which is thanks to dumb writing. It doesn't mean they've sat around and moped and did nothing to help themselves out in the long run. It's just not critical to the story.

True, TJ's magical skill growth is implausible. It's not impossible, given the access she has to specialists in their fields, but highly unlikely that she found the time in amongst her responsibilities and more recent trauma over losing her unborn daughter.

As for other species not investigating, it's something as ubiquitous as cosmic background radiation, what's to say that the (insert species here) just didn't look or notice at all? Or didn't think it was important? I mean, the writers specifically had Rush explain that the "pattern" that the Ancients noticed was deeply buried and degraded -- so it's clearly something that can easily be missed if you don't know where/how to look.

Yes, the premise of SGU was created out of nothingness ... or at least the unexplained unuse of the ninth chevron. So it wasn't built the way past Stargate series were; that's not inherently bad, it's just different. The problem lies in the execution -- it's been degraded to be 90% drama and 10% sci-fi, not the other way around as it should have been. Only now they have to work uphill to solve it.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
They could easily fix it.

Amen to ComicDiva's post. Do something to save her, fools! Good lord, the vultures are circling already ...



@ Overmind:

No rainbow, just a ray of hope. :P

Hell, every show is going to require you to suspend disbelief. Yes, what they're talking about in terms of TJ's skills is overblown for a medic. By this point, they should just retcon her as being a real doctor and then maybe it might make sense.

There is lots of stuff they could EASILY fix. Just stick TJ in that chair on the ship and claim it gave her new medical knowledge. DONE. They could also use that chair to give other people knowledge. After all, they still havent said how the chair on Destiny works, so why couldnt it impart knowledge?

Again, though, people's skills are not static. If you're stuck far away from any outside help, you're going to work damn hard at building your knowledge so you're more self-sufficient and more likely to survive, right? The characters have had nigh on a year (in story) on that ship to react to a high-pressure situation. Sure, they still act like idiots, which is thanks to dumb writing. It doesn't mean they've sat around and moped and did nothing to help themselves out in the long run. It's just not critical to the story.

Perhaps, but one does not just "pick up" skills on biochemistry or how to analyze blood components or formulating medicine or venom (and testing that is involved to insure safety). If they have brought people from earth via the stones to teach, then SHOW IT! The food on board right now...where did it come from? In the episode where Rush steered Destiny to the planet with the buried stargate (where Riley was murdered by Young), the whole reason he did it was to get food and water, but it wasnt shown that any food or water was collected. They showed it in Faith, so....

True, TJ's magical skill growth is implausible. It's not impossible, given the access she has to specialists in their fields, but highly unlikely that she found the time in amongst her responsibilities and more recent trauma over losing her unborn daughter.

Impossible. Tell me....if you were stranded on an island with nothing but a book on medicine and a radio, could you master biochemistry or endocrinology? Medical training includes much hands-on training and work on cadavers and in labs. TJ is completely, totally ridiculous in what they have her doing.

As for other species not investigating, it's something as ubiquitous as cosmic background radiation, what's to say that the (insert species here) just didn't look or notice at all? Or didn't think it was important? I mean, the writers specifically had Rush explain that the "pattern" that the Ancients noticed was deeply buried and degraded -- so it's clearly something that can easily be missed if you don't know where/how to look.

Daniel said in Air that the 9th chevron address was in the Ancient's database. That would imply that Destiny is in there as well, so why wouldnt its mission and its "importance" be in there? And if its in the database, then why didnt the Ancients pursue it and why arent they still trying to pursue it? They arent dead, you know. Perhaps this show needs some Ancients in it to meddle with the crew like they did with Daniel in The Quest. Otherwise, none of this makes sense.

Yes, the premise of SGU was created out of nothingness ... or at least the unexplained unuse of the ninth chevron. So it wasn't built the way past Stargate series were; that's not inherently bad, it's just different. The problem lies in the execution -- it's been degraded to be 90% drama and 10% sci-fi, not the other way around as it should have been. Only now they have to work uphill to solve it.

Its a soap opera now. It no longer revolves around the stargate, it revolves arouns unlikable characters and a vague "mission" having nothing to do with the stargate. Its different alright....so different that its no longer Stargate. Thats why Stargate fans are not watching it. :)
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Yep

Yep, it's a simplification of an already ridiculous "daytime soap" formula in which no character ever gets all issues truly "resolved". As soon as progress is made, more melodrama and silly subplots emerge. That "awww finally, that was cool" feeling of weight being removed from the story never truly occurs. Drab and boring. Rinse and repeat.

Your little 4 points seem to be the actual algorithm used by the writers.

Be careful about getting sued Overmind!!

Lets see...we still have build-ups/tension in the pipelines:


  1. Telford is still on the seeder ship with the brown friendly aliens, but the production notes have us bringing him back in the back half of the season.
  2. The fish people have changed Chloe, but we all know they arent going to turn her into a fish so that needs to be resolved.
  3. They are building up "tension" for an attack on earth by the LA, so that needs to be contrived soon.
  4. The LA is stuck on the planet where Riley was murdered, and there is a crashed shuttle which only needs a windshield (could the Faith aliens fix it for them?)
None of it is particularly intriguing to me. I wouldnt care if NONE of it is resolved, and they just cancel this show abruptly. I would not feel the burning desire to see anything resolved like I feel for Atlantis sitting in San Francisco harbor after EATG.
 
R

Robbie_Rocket_Pants

Guest
So now TJ is a coroner aswell? ............. Riiiiiiiiight. Also, Camille is a hypnotherapist - these are some talented numbnutses.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
I forgot about that!

So now TJ is a coroner aswell? ............. Riiiiiiiiight. Also, Camille is a hypnotherapist - these are some talented numbnutses.

Thats right! Camille said something to Young like, "Well, I was a bit overqualified for HR", Really, bitch? Well aint that about the quote of the day! So, isnt hypnotherapy a skill of a psychologist? Isnt somebody who uses hypnotherapy always also a psychologist??? If so, then why the hell is a psychologist working in Human Resources? WTF???
 

Blurb

GateFans Noob
Again, though, people's skills are not static. If you're stuck far away from any outside help, you're going to work damn hard at building your knowledge so you're more self-sufficient and more likely to survive, right? The characters have had nigh on a year (in story) on that ship to react to a high-pressure situation. Sure, they still act like idiots, which is thanks to dumb writing. It doesn't mean they've sat around and moped and did nothing to help themselves out in the long run. It's just not critical to the story.

Very much yes on the bolded part. It boggles my mind though how you can go from there to "it's not critical to the story".
That exactly would have been critical from minute one of this show and it's sure as hell more critical than doing PT or drinking yourself dumb over the ex boyfriend you moved on from by now anyway or showing your various coping mechanisms until the viewers get sick of them or play out your various hallucinations in minute detail. Yet TPTB show those things all the time, but not once in the over a year this show goes do we see anyone stone back to get themselves educated. Because it's not happening, suspending disbelieve has nothing to do with it, at this point.

~~~

Oh, ahem... about the episode: New, incompetent alien deity. Fits with the general theme, somehow ;).
 

Loheat

GateFans Cadet
Yeah, would have been good if they actually showed the characters learning stuff on Earth. Getting to see your family and shit is good, but they should do important stuff, too.

Did they really confirm that it was the ship messing with TJs head, or was it just Young guessing? I dont remember that part at all
 

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
Yeah, would have been good if they actually showed the characters learning stuff on Earth. Getting to see your family and shit is good, but they should do important stuff, too.

Did they really confirm that it was the ship messing with TJs head, or was it just Young guessing? I dont remember that part at all

The general opinion seems to be that it was the Destiny itself was responsible for TJ's "hallucination" and JM has backed that play for now. The absence of her baby in "visitation" tends to support this as well.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Still not making sense.

Yeah, would have been good if they actually showed the characters learning stuff on Earth. Getting to see your family and shit is good, but they should do important stuff, too.

Did they really confirm that it was the ship messing with TJs head, or was it just Young guessing? I dont remember that part at all

The general opinion seems to be that it was the Destiny itself was responsible for TJ's "hallucination" and JM has backed that play for now. The absence of her baby in "visitation" tends to support this as well.

What I dont get is, how does Destiny have the ability to "mess with people's heads", generate invisible playmates on its bridge (which has a neural interface unlike on any other Ancient control platforms), and run battle scenarios on its own...when Atlantis, Aurora, the Antarctic station, and the other Ancient stuff CANT? In the beginning of this stupid show, they should have made Destiny more contemporary in the timeline and its design should have been consistent with previous Ancient technology. If they wanted to change the design of the gate and the overall design style of the ship and interiors, then they should have had it built by a different alien race other than OUR Ancients.

This show hobbled itself from day one. It will never have drone weapons, or use crystals for components. It took a half season for TJ's baby to be considered dead! How could she have ever thought her baby was still alive, when her body was still on Destiny and presumably somebody removed the baby's body from TJ after she was shot? It didnt just "disappear". The people left on the Faith planet were really there in their own bodies, so it was understandable that they came back (albeit reanimated). TJ's baby was DEAD, and its body accounted for. Why TJ went through all that stuff with it being safe on the Faith planet was literally a self-delusion.
 

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
Hmmm....

I think it has more to do with the idea that "if knowledge is power, than a God am I", than anything else. Destiny may not have been specificly programmed with a AI in mind, but after millions of years, you have gotta think that the Destiny, even as a program has learnt to adapt and make it's own decisions, has found a freaking clue and become a "independant being".


Fuck that was a bad post!!
 

Yusagi

GateFans Noob
I want to get this review through without being sidelined, so I'm gonna just write this up before reading the other posts. Some of my thoughts might already be touched on or resolved. (I'll read through it after I post)

In summation, this was just...a really irritating bad episode. It wasn't 'bad' like Earth and Life where I wondered WTF show I was watching, it had a quality I could almost see in SGA/SG-1...on a really bad episode, but still.

Anyway. WHAT was the point of this episode? Other than to get the shuttle which they could do without the people (and I don't know yet that it won't degrade). To upset TJ? To give Destiny more corpses? To say "HAH! IN YOUR FACE! That's what you get for having FAITH!"? To blatantly rip off more of BSG? (Oh look at this planet to settle on, it's perfect and lovely OH NO WAIT)

Mind, I was never a big fan of the people who chose to stay behind in the first place, s1 was too early to give up on going home already, so I couldn't believe why they were staying at all. And I was annoyed we didn't get answers--but we still haven't gotten them! We actually got more with TJ's dream than this.

Furthermore, it made no sense. These idiots couldn't manage to find anything for shelter against the cold on an entire planet before or during Winter? With a space shuttle that presumably only broke during the Winter (And highly skilled scientist/engineer types couldn't find a single way to make its heater work at all?)

Then the aliens bring them back to life and restore their shuttle...but only for a little bit, and as the regain their memories of their deaths, they don't just die, they relive their death. That makes no sense unless their bodies were in some sort of temporal loop...and why do that when you could just restore them?

Now. Obviously what Rush was getting at was right: The 'aliens' didn't want to fix them. Because they're epic douches apparently, but never mind that. The only answer--the only one--is that they chose to bring them back briefly, perhaps so they could say goodbyes or so that they weren't 'dying alone' or something.

Now, they could have been done with their experiment and sent them back to their perceived 'home' without the care to actually heal them permanently (which is actually going to take less tech than temporarily), but then when the effect wore off, they should just have dropped dead, possibly of their affliction, not suffer through it progressively. The girl, for instance should have just wham hit the ground with a fractured skull and died, not gone into convulsions. (I suppose they were 'slowly reverting' but that doesn't explain their varied time tables of afflictions)

So. Why is the last guy implied to be dead when the kino footage clearly shows him still alive--or at least recoverably alive--when they jumped. If his body reverted he'd be suffering severe hypothermia, but he wouldn't be dead.

This again goes back to the problem I had with Time. Eli (and a little bit of Rush) just gets his panties WAY UP in a bunch over these aliens and the possibility that they might be 'gods'. Not because almost every other villain in the franchise pretended to be gods. Because it seems to offend him. Or possibly freak him out like in Time.

Hello. People. The Ancients ascended. This is fact. It is also fact that their abilities--through zero technology--can appear godlike. Especially if they have a cult of followers somewhere (like oh, a small colony of people on a planet, maybe? Or many small colonies on many planets?) THIS IS ABSURDLY WELL DOCUMENTED. Eli SAW all of Daniel's intro videos.

WHY is he having so much trouble accepting the possibility of ascended beings, and why isn't anyone smacking him over it?

...Yeah. That's a bit of a peeve for me, since it's more pervasive and consistent in the Stargate Franchise than the Stargate. That aliens are capable of Eden and of transporting people across galaxies and of restoring shuttles and reviving people is not even the slightest bit in question. The question they should have asked from the start was why.

Unless these aliens turn out to be the overarching villains--in which case I don't know how they'll deal with them, or why the aliens gave them back a shuttle better than their entire ship--this episode's main plot was. absolutely. pointless.

And...honestly. This isn't Doctor Who, but there's still an element of hope integral to Stargate. To go back and smash Eden and kill all of the people who took a leap of faith pointlessly without even getting one tiny little answer at all is just to smash hope because they can. It does not sit right with me at all.

Moving on to the B plot!

There...wasn't really one. There was investigating the shiny, well-lit, better equipped shuttle that will once again render the Gate obsolete as long as it exists, and there was Chloe.

Not only would I actually cheer if she became a fish alien and gained a personality, or became one and then died, but I don't believe it. At all. She'll end up a hybrid or a fish alien with all her knowledge, or--most likely--she will just get a miracle cure at the last second and Scott will be like "Yay! ILU" an Greer will be like "Yay! I like you!" and Eli will be like "Yay! Hug me? Please?" and Young will be like "Yay! I feel unexplained parental feelings toward you because I'm supposed to be Poppa Bear and everyone loves you, Chloe, so I do, too."

She's supposed to be the eye candy and what humanizes Scott and Greer and...oh, right. The whole crew. Everyone is supposed to love her, so if they kill her it will be for shock value, not with an actual story arc leading up to it.

THUS.

All scenes dealing with eventually killing Chloe are pointless, and all the scenes with the survivors NOT dealing with the shuttle are pointless.

This is essentially a two minute episode.

One last note: Why did none of them start praying until Cane was the last man alive in a ship of ghosts, nearly dead from the cold? And why did no one investigate the obelisk? Seriously?


So on one hand, I'm not 'meh I don't care', but on the other...the reaction I have is one of irritation and in some places anger.
 

Yusagi

GateFans Noob
@ParagonPie Seems a bit of a dick move by the great almighty, worship me or die.

But they DID worship them. And it still doesn't explain bringing them back to die AGAIN.

@Gatefan1976 Well, I guess the easy answer is, it didn't serve the "aliens", it served the writers who went "Oh fuck, we need a shuttle again, but we crashed it to build some kind of reason for it coming back"

They could have brought it back without the 're-death' plot involved. It could have arrived empty and spent a boring episode trying to get records out of it or looking for booby traps.

@piginpoo That is without a doubt the worst episode that I have ever seen in my life. A woman gets a nose bleed and freaks out - wtf, if a tree had fallen on her she would not be running around screaming and holding her nose.

I believe it illustrated that she suddenly suffered blunt force trauma to her head and started bleeding everywhere.

@Zeropointratingsmodule I'm glad they finally had someone (namely Eli) call others out about it on screen;

Although not because he realized it was immoral, but because it was his girl that time.

I AM with you about TJ, though. It's not hard to say "Oh this person's skull is caved in" or "Oh this person is literally frozen".

@piginpoo The density data bank is so old it would be the equivalent of a 64K plug in expansion module for a ZX81 compared to modern stuff. This means that it would have been filled to capacity millions of years ago. Therefore there can not be that much useful information in there !

Not necessarily. It's not unreasonable to think they have a good archiving/knowledge base system for its important information. They anticipated it'd be a long time, since they made it self-sustainable. And 64K to Ancients is still incredibly beyond normal Earth tech.

@Tetrion There's a reason why the Ancients abandoned the Density, and if it was anything decent they would have pursued it. Now something as monumental as "God Signal" would have SOMETHING in the Atlantis DATABASE. The thing about it is that there's hasn't been a mention about it at all.

I hate to defend something so dumb on the show, BUT it is well documented that we've essentially scraped off fingernail shavings from the Ancient and Asgard databases. And it's unlikely they'd have checked the folder with the file on 'that project with a strange signal on the other side of the universe we started ages ago'.

It's possible when Rodney shows up he'll make mention of finding it, though.

@Overmind Then why didnt the Ori or the Goa'uld or the Nox or the Asgard or the Furlings or anyone else send ships of their own (which are FAR more advanced than Destiny) to investigate?

For the sake of argument...

The Ori HAD godly power, the Goa'uld knew nothing and had no chance of getting to it, the Nox and Asgard aren't power hungry like the LA and likely wouldn't see the knowledge like that, and we have no idea what the Furlings did.

@Overmind Daniel said in Air that the 9th chevron address was in the Ancient's database.

Fragmented database? Again, not defending the show, just offering possible explanations, as I do with any show I watch. Most do require it. SGu's problem is CONSTANTLY requiring it.


As another note, maybe I'm so angry with this episode because it had POTENTIAL. It COULD have been interesting. THe people could have had information or been there for a purpose. They could have been experimented on. They could have broken rules and been kicked out, the aliens could have been outright evil and twisted (Like maybe the chick who died died because she tried to remember something they didn't want her to)

But instead they come off as indifferent or incompetent.

Also, the Fish Aliens are a GALAXY AWAY. Chances are if Chloe DID become a fish alien, she wouldn't be any danger.
 
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