Episode Review: Episode 19, "Blockade" by Terran77

[shavedape]

I don't think the Destiny's AI didn't detect Park, it just didn't care she was there. I think it's a fundamental mistake to assume that all AI would conform to Asimov's Three laws in all circumstances instead of looking at what the likely priorities would be when designing an AI for a specific mission profile. I think it's fair to say that the safety of the ship would be the top priority of Destiny's AI, which crew safety being second or third at best, mostly because the ship itself is critical to the mission-without Destiny flying around, collecting data, and staying intact, there's no point to any of it. While Destiny does need a crew to analyze the data, it can pretty much do everything else by itself, and in order to ensure the long term survival of the crew it has to minimize the risk to itself as much as possible. Sacrificing a crew member or two to ensure the rest of the ship remains intact is pure logic issue to the Destiny's AI, much like giving TJ that vision of her child being on the Faith planet, and given the situation the AI found itself in, flying into a blue super giant with a compromised section that could fail at any time, it made the logical choice to seal off the dome and leave Park to her fate.

As for the lack of manual lever to open the door, I suspect teat the Ancients who designed Destiny realized that was better to err on the side of caution and minimize the human element in damage control by putting that mostly on the ship's AI and making it difficult for people to override it manually to avoid emotion getting the better of reason and causing an even greater tragedy.

You had me up until this last part. Every malfunctioning door doesn't bespeak a tragedy. There would be a manual override should the power go out. Even a broken electric garage door can be opened manually when the power goes out. If the Ancients were smart enough to build an inter-galactic ship replete with super computer they'd be smart enough to put a safety feature on the doors. It really is that simple.

You decry my using Asimov's Three Laws but you go too far in the opposite direction. To think that this super smart race of humanoids would give up total control to the ship's AI to the point that they would never find it necessary to manually open a door is worse than what I posited. The power is going to go out on occasion even in the best of circumstances. And they knew they would be traveling in uncharted/unexplored space -- they have no idea what dangers awaited them. To claim that they were going to sacrifice themselves "for the greater good" in the event of a blown fuse is ridiculous. Forgetting the little lifesaving detail of "doorknobs" hardly speaks well of an advanced race of beings. Neither does it speak well of the people who wrote such tripe.

 

[shavedape]

Its just more proof that no matter what the fans or anyone else was saying, Stargate Universe was going to fill each week with vapid, nonsensical "science", and forced drama between characters we barely know or like. I dont recall Brad & Co hiring science advisers or military advisers for season 2, but they sure hired soap writers and sudsed it up even more than in season1. But the biggest shocker was them keeping the stones in the show. Instead of getting rid of them or SEVERELY limiting them through some new hazard or risk, they try to turn them into actual technology? When that episode where Ginn and Amanda were cached in the computer, Rush was going on about a "command signal" coming from the stones...how can this be? In order for communications to be in REAL TIME between Destiny and earth, even magic would have to make a signal which could travel BILLIONS of light years INSTANTLY. How is any computer made by any race ever conceived in science fiction going to pick up such a signal?

Yup, and the same race of geniuses that created the magic stones just happened to forget to put a manual override on the doors of the ship. What kills me is that people were actually paid to write this crap -- and paid quite handsomely I'm sure, sigh...

 

[YoshiKart64]

The command stones have been around since SG1 though, people seemed fine when they were used there.

The issue with the stones isn't how realistic they are, it's just that they haven't led to much good storywise. To be honest the Ancients themselves have always been more fantasy than Sci-fi; they just became less interesting as SG1, Atlantis and later Universe went on.

 

[Terran77]

Interesting discussion going on... several things I'd like to add:

The "ship AI" seems to be just about as farcical / fantasy as the communication stones, at least to me. It'd be one thing for the ship AI to generate alternative scenarios that "get in their heads" and mess them up. But the reasons for doing so have seemed almost emotionally driven: to comfort TJ in her loss, to make Rush consider his errors in pragmatic-only thinking, or to make Young stop being a whiny, weepy commander and snap out of it. Those are motivations clearly intended to be sympathetic and understanding, even parental. Then, curiously, when the crew is feeling "better" (or at least patched up enough to cope, emotionally), the ship AI goes back to being in the background, almost absent. Why would the Ancients create an AI that "cared" in those circumstances, but decides to lock out Park for no reason? She could've opened the door, closed it, went down the hall, and there would've been no reason to blind her. All of that could've been accomplished before the ship dove into the hotter blue supergiant. It makes no sense, considering the earlier storylines.

As to the stones, they're back without any explanation. Telford was "stoning in" for a report in "Blockade", but we got nothing, zip, nada, zero, to clear up what happened back at the SGC with the Lucian Alliance suicide bomber. I guess apparently they recovered the stones from the building wreckage... but come on. Additionally, until the return of Ginn and Amanda, honestly I wasn't as concerned with how the stones actually worked. But now, since we see that souls can be saved on a hard drive (seriously, WTF...), the writers themselves opened up the stones to "sci-fi nerd analysis" in a big way. Apparently you can just download yourself into a computer. Of course, we've seen this before... Carter was downloaded into a computer, and the Asgard do it all the time when they need to have a new clone body. But did the writers take this in a sci-fi direction, asking what it means for a person to actually do that? Or something about where the line between technology and magic can seem blurry? No. Again, it's glossed over and used to show us sex scenes in a holographic world for Rush and Amanda.

And in any case... remember Franklin? Didn't he get downloaded? The writers appear to have totally forgotten him. But then again, would any of us want to see Franklin having sex? Not really.

 

[Leo(T.C.K.)]

Well, the bomber happened quite few episodes ago, did you forget we had the episode with MCKay in it? There was Telford with him etc, I don't think any suicide bomber happened meanwhile or did it?

 

[shavedape]

The command stones have been around since SG1 though, people seemed fine when they were used there.

The issue with the stones isn't how realistic they are, it's just that they haven't led to much good storywise. To be honest the Ancients themselves have always been more fantasy than Sci-fi; they just became less interesting as SG1, Atlantis and later Universe went on.

So...that would make Destiny (SGU's raison d'être) not very interesting then, eh?

 

[YoshiKart64]

So...that would make Destiny (SGU's raison d'être) not very interesting then, eh?

Destiny is just a ship, the show has always been about how the characters react when going through the Stargate and subsequently being cut off. In saying that Destiny is still the coolest looking ship Stargate has produced so that's nice.

The role that the ancients play in SGU is thankfully a long gone race. After Atlantis essentially ruined all the mystique and build up SG1 had created, there was no need to have them play any larger a role. And If I'm going to buy that the Atlantis databasenhad nothing obvious on the Ori during the first season, I'm willing to buy that they could cover up an exploration mission.

 

[Graybrew1]

Interesting discussion going on... several things I'd like to add:

The "ship AI" seems to be just about as farcical / fantasy as the communication stones, at least to me. It'd be one thing for the ship AI to generate alternative scenarios that "get in their heads" and mess them up. But the reasons for doing so have seemed almost emotionally driven: to comfort TJ in her loss, to make Rush consider his errors in pragmatic-only thinking, or to make Young stop being a whiny, weepy commander and snap out of it. Those are motivations clearly intended to be sympathetic and understanding, even parental. Then, curiously, when the crew is feeling "better" (or at least patched up enough to cope, emotionally), the ship AI goes back to being in the background, almost absent. Why would the Ancients create an AI that "cared" in those circumstances, but decides to lock out Park for no reason? She could've opened the door, closed it, went down the hall, and there would've been no reason to blind her. All of that could've been accomplished before the ship dove into the hotter blue supergiant. It makes no sense, considering the earlier storylines.

As to the stones, they're back without any explanation. Telford was "stoning in" for a report in "Blockade", but we got nothing, zip, nada, zero, to clear up what happened back at the SGC with the Lucian Alliance suicide bomber. I guess apparently they recovered the stones from the building wreckage... but come on. Additionally, until the return of Ginn and Amanda, honestly I wasn't as concerned with how the stones actually worked. But now, since we see that souls can be saved on a hard drive (seriously, WTF...), the writers themselves opened up the stones to "sci-fi nerd analysis" in a big way. Apparently you can just download yourself into a computer. Of course, we've seen this before... Carter was downloaded into a computer, and the Asgard do it all the time when they need to have a new clone body. But did the writers take this in a sci-fi direction, asking what it means for a person to actually do that? Or something about where the line between technology and magic can seem blurry? No. Again, it's glossed over and used to show us sex scenes in a holographic world for Rush and Amanda.

And in any case... remember Franklin? Didn't he get downloaded? The writers appear to have totally forgotten him. But then again, would any of us want to see Franklin having sex? Not really.

I do not remember Franklin. Who was he? Which ep?

 

[EvilSpaceAlien]

I do not remember Franklin. Who was he? Which ep?

He was the guy who first sat in the chair and then got sucked up into the ship or whatever happened.

 

[Graybrew1]

He was the guy who first sat in the chair and then got sucked up into the ship or whatever happened.

thanks, I did not realize at the time that he was not just killed.

So, if that is the case, where is he now? Why are we not seeing him? Maybe he made Park go blind by locking the doors, did his character not like her's?

 

[Stonelesscutter]

I don't think the Destiny's AI didn't detect Park, it just didn't care she was there. I think it's a fundamental mistake to assume that all AI would conform to Asimov's Three laws in all circumstances instead of looking at what the likely priorities would be when designing an AI for a specific mission profile. I think it's fair to say that the safety of the ship would be the top priority of Destiny's AI, which crew safety being second or third at best, mostly because the ship itself is critical to the mission-without Destiny flying around, collecting data, and staying intact, there's no point to any of it. While Destiny does need a crew to analyze the data, it can pretty much do everything else by itself, and in order to ensure the long term survival of the crew it has to minimize the risk to itself as much as possible. Sacrificing a crew member or two to ensure the rest of the ship remains intact is pure logic issue to the Destiny's AI, much like giving TJ that vision of her child being on the Faith planet, and given the situation the AI found itself in, flying into a blue super giant with a compromised section that could fail at any time, it made the logical choice to seal off the dome and leave Park to her fate.

As for the lack of manual lever to open the door, I suspect teat the Ancients who designed Destiny realized that was better to err on the side of caution and minimize the human element in damage control by putting that mostly on the ship's AI and making it difficult for people to override it manually to avoid emotion getting the better of reason and causing an even greater tragedy.

Afraid I have to disagree. There was plenty of time beforehand for Destiny to give Park a vision that she shouldn't be in there because bad things are gonna happen. In your own argument you suggest that Destiny looks after the people on board. Besides that when Destiny sealed the door there was still a few minutes to go before they even entered the star. Open door, let Park out, close door. Hmmm... that should take all of 3 seconds. Epic fail!

 

[Terran77]

thanks, I did not realize at the time that he was not just killed.

So, if that is the case, where is he now? Why are we not seeing him? Maybe he made Park go blind by locking the doors, did his character not like her's?

No, Franklin is just missing... gone... no mention of him after his death. Although Rush had hallucinations of him briefly, that's stopped awhile back.

 

[shavedape]

] Destiny is just a ship,[/B] the show has always been about how the characters react when going through the Stargate and subsequently being cut off. In saying that Destiny is still the coolest looking ship Stargate has produced so that's nice.

The role that the ancients play in SGU is thankfully a long gone race. After Atlantis essentially ruined all the mystique and build up SG1 had created, there was no need to have them play any larger a role. And If I'm going to buy that the Atlantis databasenhad nothing obvious on the Ori during the first season, I'm willing to buy that they could cover up an exploration mission.

Destiny is just a ship? Tell that to Brad Wright and crew.

And I would contest your downplaying of Destiny's importance to the show. The whole premise of the show is predicated on the existence and use of Destiny -- a ship of miraculous design and engineering. It is the tool by which the 'oh so important' characters get to act out their passion plays.

The reason for the initial planned excursion from the Icarus planet was solely to reach Destiny for the sake of reaching Destiny, that's how important the ship is. If you think about it Destiny is the most important character on the show.

I would add that I don't think they use Destiny well in terms of clear story telling. One week it's a super AI computer that reads minds and the next it's just a ship. This has nothing to do with the premise of the show but rather is simply a sign of poor writing and plotting on the part of TPTB.

 

[Gatefan1976]

I gotta go with the Beeb on this one.

The Destiny is the whole reason they are there in the first place and, true to form, It is treated with the same level of distain as Atlantis by the writers. So much could have been done with these two settings yet unless it's to fuel some emergency on either show, they are all but ignored. I'm not saying every ep has to revolve around them, not at all. Yoshi is right that it should be more about the "living" characters, but to ignore the primary setting (even worse in SGU as it is such a bottle show) is a huge failing.

 

[Terran77]

I gotta go with the Beeb on this one.

The Destiny is the whole reason they are there in the first place and, true to form, It is treated with the same level of distain as Atlantis by the writers. So much could have been done with these two settings yet unless it's to fuel some emergency on either show, they are all but ignored. I'm not saying every ep has to revolve around them, not at all. Yoshi is right that it should be more about the "living" characters, but to ignore the primary setting (even worse in SGU as it is such a bottle show) is a huge failing.

Dang, that is SO true. I loved Atlantis and wanted to see more of it every week. Very, very rarely we would get to see a new lab or whatnot... but I loved that when it happened. I never understood why the writers didn't take more interest in exploring the giant city. I guess that would've required more sets, but then again they'd go visit new planets and have to build for those... I just never understood.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Dang, that is SO true. I loved Atlantis and wanted to see more of it every week. Very, very rarely we would get to see a new lab or whatnot... but I loved that when it happened. I never understood why the writers didn't take more interest in exploring the giant city. I guess that would've required more sets, but then again they'd go visit new planets and have to build for those... I just never understood.

Indeed.
It wasn't as much of an issue in SG1 because we really didn't need to see much of the SGC and Earth based stuff isn't usually as interesting as the stuff on other planets or ships, but for SGA/SGU, the location is WHY they went to them in the first place. I know alot of it really does come down to the money involved in making the sets, but why not use more greenscreen? (esp in SGU when the GS tech was much better than the SG1 days). I'll admit that greenscreen has its issues sometimes (Sanctuary has this problem on occasion), but come on, would you really notice it that much hidden amongst the physical sets? I'm sure the SG factory on the seedship in SGU was GS, but with the quality of the physical sets it was easy to ignore any "iffy" parts in it.

 

[shavedape]

Dang, that is SO true. I loved Atlantis and wanted to see more of it every week. Very, very rarely we would get to see a new lab or whatnot... but I loved that when it happened. I never understood why the writers didn't take more interest in exploring the giant city. I guess that would've required more sets, but then again they'd go visit new planets and have to build for those... I just never understood.

Years ago I read an interview with Jeri Taylor a scriptwriter/producer for Star Trek (NG/VG) who said that basically they budgeted each episode for at least one "new" set. Such sets were rarely big budget monstrosities but were mostly just revamped stages to accommodate the episode story. So basically for each episode they were able to have a scene take place in a setting that was new to the viewers. The sets might not have been spectacular but they nonetheless delineated a new scene from an old, familiar scene.

There was absolutely no reason they couldn't have done this with SGA. We're talking about an entire city chock full of Ancient engineering and technology. The possibilities are endless and it wouldn't have cost them an arm and a leg to erect those sets. Hell, they did enough Vancouver forest location shots in the show, and those aren't exactly cheap to do. So, that right there proves how bad the writing and producing was on that show.

They literally gave themselves a brave new world to play with at the start of the show and then they simply let it rot unused.

 

[ChromeToasterX]

You had me up until this last part. Every malfunctioning door doesn't bespeak a tragedy. There would be a manual override should the power go out. Even a broken electric garage door can be opened manually when the power goes out. If the Ancients were smart enough to build an inter-galactic ship replete with super computer they'd be smart enough to put a safety feature on the doors. It really is that simple.

You decry my using Asimov's Three Laws but you go too far in the opposite direction. To think that this super smart race of humanoids would give up total control to the ship's AI to the point that they would never find it necessary to manually open a door is worse than what I posited. The power is going to go out on occasion even in the best of circumstances. And they knew they would be traveling in uncharted/unexplored space -- they have no idea what dangers awaited them. To claim that they were going to sacrifice themselves "for the greater good" in the event of a blown fuse is ridiculous. Forgetting the little lifesaving detail of "doorknobs" hardly speaks well of an advanced race of beings. Neither does it speak well of the people who wrote such tripe.

I should've elaborated on that point, but it was what, midnight? Cut me some slack

Here's how I think the system works. In 95% to 99% of the time, the manual override works because there's no need to add an extra layer of security/protection. But for all those other times, when the safety of the ship/crew is in question, there's an override for the manual override to ensure that the ship remains intact. Diving into a blue super giant with a major weak point in the hull is one of those situations- if the dome had failed earlier in the dive and the door had been open, high temperature plasma could have flooded into the ship and severely damaged the interior.

As to why it sealed Park in there when it did and why it didn't use a vision to warn her, I think it boils down to two things-conservatism on the part of the Destiny's AI/programmers and the fact that Park isn't mission critical. TJ is mission critical because she's the most medically qualified member of the crew, Young is necessary because he's the leader of the military contingent that's keeping the crew alive, and Rush was pretty much the only competent one in the first season and the first chunk of season 2. Park is just one of the extra people that are useful, but not all that important (seriously, what did she contribute compared to Volker or Brody?).

 

[Stonelesscutter]

I should've elaborated on that point, but it was what, midnight? Cut me some slack

Here's how I think the system works. In 95% to 99% of the time, the manual override works because there's no need to add an extra layer of security/protection. But for all those other times, when the safety of the ship/crew is in question, there's an override for the manual override to ensure that the ship remains intact. Diving into a blue super giant with a major weak point in the hull is one of those situations- if the dome had failed earlier in the dive and the door had been open, high temperature plasma could have flooded into the ship and severely damaged the interior.

As to why it sealed Park in there when it did and why it didn't use a vision to warn her, I think it boils down to two things-conservatism on the part of the Destiny's AI/programmers and the fact that Park isn't mission critical. TJ is mission critical because she's the most medically qualified member of the crew, Young is necessary because he's the leader of the military contingent that's keeping the crew alive, and Rush was pretty much the only competent one in the first season and the first chunk of season 2. Park is just one of the extra people that are useful, but not all that important (seriously, what did she contribute compared to Volker or Brody?).

I think she created the arboretum. What did Volker and Brody do besides making moonshine?
The mere fact that she's human and inhabiting the ship should have been enough for Destiny to try and save her. It wouldn't even have to be through a vision. A simple "get out of the room now or you'll get hurt" would have been sufficient. In the first season Destiny dropped out of FTL near planets that had exactly what the people on board needed most to survive, like water (ice) and limestone (CO2 scrubber). Now all of a sudden the ship doesn't give a damn if someone dies even if there are only 3 people left aboard. For all it knows the other crewmembers won't be able to return.