Why the Star Trek (2009) movie sucked worse than SGU

[shavedape]

Never doubt the power of a well aimed spitball dude

Or a half-empty bottle of cheap whiskey.

 

[Gatefan1976]

Or a half-empty bottle of cheap whiskey.

Indeed

 

[Enoch]

I don't think the went full "OC" but rather just skirted the edges a bit. I know some people didn't like the Spock/Uhura hookup. I didn't mind it since it was in the context of Spock's story. I loved the way they embraced the issue of Vulcans and emotions instead of just having Spock act like a robot, which a different production team might have done.

I remember on the DVD extras them talking about how they wanted a Star Wars feel to the movie which I found very interesting. That or they were influenced by Star Wars -- something like that.

That they did, they wanted to, iirc, 'take a look at what Star Wars did' and try to mirror that. They then showed the scene of Kirk being chased by the Ice Monster....feh.

I actually didn't mind the Spock/Uhura relationship at all, if anything I felt that it made more sense than most of what they did. I can recall a number of times in TOS where Uhura had this particular look on her face when she looked at Spock, it was a nice touch. And I'm glad that they didn't do the obvious and just have Kirk hook up with her! Kirk THINKS he has mad game but he was shot down and Spock won in the end, good stuff lol.

 

[Graybrew1]

That they did, they wanted to, iirc, 'take a look at what Star Wars did' and try to mirror that. They then showed the scene of Kirk being chased by the Ice Monster....feh.

I actually didn't mind the Spock/Uhura relationship at all, if anything I felt that it made more sense than most of what they did. I can recall a number of times in TOS where Uhura had this particular look on her face when she looked at Spock, it was a nice touch. And I'm glad that they didn't do the obvious and just have Kirk hook up with her! Kirk THINKS he has mad game but he was shot down and Spock won in the end, good stuff lol.

I love all the different aspects of all the Treks. I think that is one of the best parts of it.
All in all , we are all ST fans and that in itself is a special thing.

 

[Enoch]

I love all the different aspects of all the Treks. I think that is one of the best parts of it.
All in all , we are all ST fans and that in itself is a special thing.

That's what made the transition to TNG (and subsequently DS9 and Voyager) and then to Enterprise so seamless, there was a LOT of history there and they weren't ashamed of it. Were there some missteps and some goofy moments? Sure, lots of 'em, but they in no way weakened the franchise.

Each and every moment was an integral part to the whole and if you were to remove any part of it....

Heyyyy....I'm having a 'Tapestry' flashback, lol.

I think that change is necessary to move any franchise forward, but you don't have to disrespect what came before.

 

[shavedape]

We have to keep in mind that we're talking about a movie which has to cram everything into 90 - 120 minutes. A series has much more room to grow, blossom and explain things, especially regarding the characters and their motivations. Even TOS was just that "the original series". Now the original concept has been condensed down into a movie which is a huge challenge in itself. Of course there will be preconceived ideas of what works and what doesn't but we have to keep in mind that we're often comparing the new movie to an old series.

For what it's worth I think JJ Abrams did a good job of it and I'm looking forward to the next movie. I see this as a revitalizing of the Star Trek concept and I think it's a good thing.

 

[Joelist]

That's what made the transition to TNG (and subsequently DS9 and Voyager) and then to Enterprise so seamless, there was a LOT of history there and they weren't ashamed of it. Were there some missteps and some goofy moments? Sure, lots of 'em, but they in no way weakened the franchise.

Each and every moment was an integral part to the whole and if you were to remove any part of it....

Heyyyy....I'm having a 'Tapestry' flashback, lol.

I think that change is necessary to move any franchise forward, but you don't have to disrespect what came before.

Nor was there any disreespect done to what came before. In fact the movie contains numerous nods both small and large to the canon that existed before. It also helps that the leads nailed their parts totally.

I posted a longer review of Trek 09 in a different thread in here somewhere, and in it I laid out why the path that Abrams and Orci took was a great idea, and is the only way Trek was going to continue. In fact here it is:

http://www.gatefans.net/forums/show...-Boldly-Go-Again-Where-No-One-Has-Gone-Before

 

[Stonelesscutter]

If he complains.................... I will take them off.

Those boots are fine, but that top is just too much.
Get rid of it.

 

[Enoch]

We have to keep in mind that we're talking about a movie which has to cram everything into 90 - 120 minutes. A series has much more room to grow, blossom and explain things, especially regarding the characters and their motivations. Even TOS was just that "the original series". Now the original concept has been condensed down into a movie which is a huge challenge in itself. Of course there will be preconceived ideas of what works and what doesn't but we have to keep in mind that we're often comparing the new movie to an old series.

For what it's worth I think JJ Abrams did a good job of it and I'm looking forward to the next movie. I see this as a revitalizing of the Star Trek concept and I think it's a good thing.

This is true. For the most part I keep an open mind, like the rest of us there's going to be things that I nitpick but if I turn that part of my brain off I can enjoy it.

And, really, it was jut that comment that set my nerves on edge, that whole 'Ok, now how do we make this cool' comment I heard on the special features. It soured my first time watching it on DVD but once I got over myself and took it with a grain of salt I was able to enjoy it.

I'm looking forward to future output myself, although I find that the wait is a bit distressing. If the intent was to 'reboot' the franchise as it were they should strike while the iron's hot

 

[ChromeToasterX]

I'm looking forward to future output myself, although I find that the wait is a bit distressing. If the intent was to 'reboot' the franchise as it were they should strike while the iron's hot

Personally, I like that they're taking their time with it, since it gives them more time to figure what they want and get everything sorted out before they make the movie.

That said, while the new movie isn't going to be here anytime soon, there's going to be some new Trek comics and a Trek game that actually looks like it might have some appeal to non-Trekkies and be good.

 

[Enoch]

Personally, I like that they're taking their time with it, since it gives them more time to figure what they want and get everything sorted out before they make the movie.

Plus there's the detriment of oversaturation. I'm used to being surrounded by Trek, on tv,in theaters, a break like this could be beneficial I guess.

 

[shavedape]

Plus there's the detriment of oversaturation. I'm used to being surrounded by Trek, on tv,in theaters, a break like this could be beneficial I guess.

Plus I doubt there will be a live action TV series of Star Trek while the movies are still in production. Maybe the Abrams movies are "done" so to speak then they will come up with another series. But I just don't see that happening very soon.

 

[Overmind One]

I just rewatched the 2009 movie and I cant believe I ever said I liked this thing. I mean, it was absolutely vapid. Abrams ripped it's soul out and replaced it with bubble gum and soda pop. Everything from the "character development" to the asinine bar fight, the high school girl demeanour of Uhura, the Vulcan bullies at school, and even the music background and sound effects were cheesy. I swear, I did not feel this way the first time around at all. I liked it. Really I did! But I think what I liked the most was the new cast and how well they were matched (except Chekhov). Seeing it again a few times has made me hate it. From the dumb beer brewery engine room to the Apple Store bridge and over the top lighting and lens flares and dumb dialogue, it just sucked...retroactively.

Seeing Star Trek Into Dumbness increased the retroactive effect. Abrams has basically torched the entire Star Trek universe. Its already time for another reboot!

 

[Joelist]

I guess this is just a place where we differ. I still like Trek 09 while detesting Into Darkness (in fact IIRC I was harsher on it than many of us here). Trek 09 was an origin story and worked in that context pretty well. Into Darkness was....dreck? It's hard to properly express how loathsome Into Darkness was. I don't view the two films as a unit but rather as separate entities.

 

[Overmind One]

I guess this is just a place where we differ. I still like Trek 09 while detesting Into Darkness (in fact IIRC I was harsher on it than many of us here). Trek 09 was an origin story and worked in that context pretty well. Into Darkness was....dreck? It's hard to properly express how loathsome Into Darkness was. I don't view the two films as a unit but rather as separate entities.

You found a way to create a construct where it works for you. Thats okay, but Im looking at the overall fabric of the Abrams Trek universe and that is where I see the most damage. It started in 2009, but the rip was complete in Into Dumbness and there were even more created. Where does it go from here? It is no longer science fiction. What is it? How do we go on with transwarp beaming, no Vulcan, magic Kahn blood and Uhura loves Spock? How many more times are they gonna pay Nimoy to keep a straight face when trampling on Gene Roddenberry's creation to desperately try and impart cred on this crud?

 

[shavedape]

I just rewatched the 2009 movie and I cant believe I ever said I liked this thing. I mean, it was absolutely vapid. Abrams ripped it's soul out and replaced it with bubble gum and soda pop. Everything from the "character development" to the asinine bar fight, the high school girl demeanour of Uhura, the Vulcan bullies at school, and even the music background and sound effects were cheesy. I swear, I did not feel this way the first time around at all. I liked it. Really I did! But I think what I liked the most was the new cast and how well they were matched (except Chekhov). Seeing it again a few times has made me hate it. From the dumb beer brewery engine room to the Apple Store bridge and over the top lighting and lens flares and dumb dialogue, it just sucked...retroactively.

Seeing Star Trek Into Dumbness increased the retroactive effect. Abrams has basically torched the entire Star Trek universe. Its already time for another reboot!

Don't feel so bad. I think we all initially liked it because we were excited to have ST back. The casting (with the glaring exception of Chekhov) was really good and added a lot to our initial enjoyment of the movie. But we're smart folks here and it didn't take long for us to see the flaws. I, for one, remember us going on about the implausibility of "red matter". And then it all seemed to unravel from there.

 

[Joelist]

Remember that ST09 only really had two elements in it that potentially could mess up the overall story arc, and one was gone after that movie anyway (all the red matter was gone and nobody in the movie universe would have any idea how to make more). Transwarp beaming could and should have been disposed of early in the second film - just a simple line to the effect that it turns out it can't work on any sustained basis and the one time it did work was a cosmic fluke (even name a bunch of coincidental conditions that contributed to it). Trek did that itself once or twice and so did SG-1.

Where Into Darkness basically destroyed the overall story was that not only did they not stitch up those items they introduced more. Khan's miracle blood was a huge one and also stupid - how about it reviving a tribble? Or the idiotic plot with Khan's people in the torpedoes. Or the idea that Khan with his century plus old knowledge would build a ship more advanced than the current tech.

Into Darkness and Man of Steel were two of the worst movies ever made in my opinion. And on Into Darkness I am not saying "worst trek". It was also an incredibly bad action film in general. And the name that goes down in infamy from it is this one.....

DAMON LINDELOF!!!

This dunce is also the perpetrator of Prometheus which likewise had a plot that was utterly incoherent nonsense. Interesting that after ID Paramount cut him loose from Trek and that Kathleen Kennedy at Lucasfilm made sure he got nowhere near Star Wars.

Fortunately Trek has a new director and Justin Lin is a good director, having directed well made films in more than one genre. What it REALLY needs now is a strong screenwriter with actual Science fiction cred, to try to script their way back out of Lindelof's mess. I would vote they go overseas and get Alex Garland. He wrote 28 Days Later and also Sunshine so he has the cred. You wouldn't get incoherent nonsense out of him.

 

[Bluce Ree]

Into Darkness and Man of Steel were two of the worst movies ever made in my opinion.

I challenge that statement.

 

[Joelist]

I did say "two of the worst"....there's room for more on that list!

 

[shavedape]

Remember that ST09 only really had two elements in it that potentially could mess up the overall story arc, and one was gone after that movie anyway (all the red matter was gone and nobody in the movie universe would have any idea how to make more). Transwarp beaming could and should have been disposed of early in the second film - just a simple line to the effect that it turns out it can't work on any sustained basis and the one time it did work was a cosmic fluke (even name a bunch of coincidental conditions that contributed to it). Trek did that itself once or twice and so did SG-1.

Where Into Darkness basically destroyed the overall story was that not only did they not stitch up those items they introduced more. Khan's miracle blood was a huge one and also stupid - how about it reviving a tribble? Or the idiotic plot with Khan's people in the torpedoes. Or the idea that Khan with his century plus old knowledge would build a ship more advanced than the current tech.

Into Darkness and Man of Steel were two of the worst movies ever made in my opinion. And on Into Darkness I am not saying "worst trek". It was also an incredibly bad action film in general. And the name that goes down in infamy from it is this one.....

DAMON LINDELOF!!!

This dunce is also the perpetrator of Prometheus which likewise had a plot that was utterly incoherent nonsense. Interesting that after ID Paramount cut him loose from Trek and that Kathleen Kennedy at Lucasfilm made sure he got nowhere near Star Wars.

Fortunately Trek has a new director and Justin Lin is a good director, having directed well made films in more than one genre. What it REALLY needs now is a strong screenwriter with actual Science fiction cred, to try to script their way back out of Lindelof's mess. I would vote they go overseas and get Alex Garland. He wrote 28 Days Later and also Sunshine so he has the cred. You wouldn't get incoherent nonsense out of him.

I dunno, I thought that Sunshine kinda crapped out in the latter part of the movie.