The Last Ship - could've been worse

[Overmind One]

Hi OM!

I know you served in the military, which is why I am not understanding why you think military personnel would be so self centered as to jump ship and basically kiss off the world. This runs contrary to my own personal experience and I know a good number of both active and former military personnel. Remember, they were given the choice and also knew that the cure was being worked on aboard the ship. They opted to stay on. Once they decided that and the cure was perfected some did go to seek their families but most stayed on board to help get the cure distributed.

Of course, the lure of the cure would not only keep me on the ship, and I would even fight to protect my presence there. But once the cure was done and I was protected against the disease, I would be off that ship ASAP. Being in the military is a compromise, both on your personal freedoms and on your personal principles. Joining is a voluntary relinquishment of your rights as a citizen (not the vote but everything else). Day in and day out of repetitive tasks, taking orders from others and competing for rank. It is not the life one would choose to live by forever. Even police have at least double the freedom. 90% of military personnel do one tour and that's it (like me). Four years of service? Piece of cake.

Greater good = something greater than themselves, like saving lots of lives.

Okay, but the scientists created the cure and they can distribute it using volunteers on the land. There is no need to protect the ship because the cure now exists and they can dump the ship and start distributing it on land where the survivors are.

As to the notion that people reeling under a pandemic just waving off a restoration of government based on its pre-pandemic behavior, that also sounds a bit off. Just getting the basic government up and running would bring forth more servicemen/servicewomen among other things, and would help get things like basic law and order restored. I would guess that matters like taxes and such won't be high on anyone's docket when as far as we know most of the congress and the bureaucracy are dead. Remember, this is just very basic government not a "restore the whole of the old system" thing.

Basic law and order is an inherent part of primate hierarchy. It would arise on it's own. I am speaking also from a "minority" point of view. The vast majority of people you speak to in America or in foreign nations are not happy with their governments. I do not want to restore something like the government we have today. I would welcome the fall of global military forces, and the collapse of capitalism. I am not alone.

 

[Joelist]

And I fully understand why one would not want to resurrect the present order - I am no fan of mind boggling corruption either. The thing is in the show's scenario that sort of stuff is WAY off in the distance - the matters in view now are basic law, order, getting things like food production and distribution running, sanitation, medical care and such.

Plus, a big complicating factor is the Nazi-like (in that they are winning people over by saying that their immunity makes them a "master race") immune army which has been attacking and stamping out the cure wherever found. And unfortunately they have access to modern military hardware too.

 

[shavedape]

I would think that based upon the high percentage of the population that's been wiped out by this plague that the surviving pockets of people would have their own localized "tribal" control structure. And most of these small "governments" would not be democratic in nature. They would be dictatorial out of necessity. So unless a centralized United States government could offer them continuous protection and care and/or coerce them thru force (via a 24/7 gendarmerie) they would have no reason to rejoin the "union".

 

[Bluce Ree]

So unless a centralized United States government could offer them continuous protection and care ...

Why? We're doing just fine today in real life and our government doesn't provide shit in protection and care. Coercion, though, yes and plenty.

 

[shavedape]

Why? We're doing just fine today in real life and our government doesn't provide shit in protection and care. Coercion, though, yes and plenty.

"our government" says the American job-stealing canuck. Listen, when we have a question regarding maple syrup and its many uses (including as a masturbation aide) then we'll poll you for some feedback. Until then keep sitting on your broke-down couch in that tenement housing you call home; watching hockey and eating empty carbs from the bag in your lap.

 

[Joelist]

Note I agreed with both Bluce and Shaved. Remember however that such things are jumping ahead of where they are in the show. They are trying to deal with the immune army and also protect and distribute the cure. And in that context getting any sort of recognizable government in view helps.
--- merged: Aug 16, 2015 at 1:02 PM ---

"our government" says the American job-stealing canuck. Listen, when we have a question regarding maple syrup and its many uses (including as a masturbation aide) then we'll poll you for some feedback. Until then keep sitting on your broke-down couch in that tenement housing you call home; watching hockey and eating empty carbs from the bag in your lap.

Do we REALLY want to know how you know these things...?

 

[shavedape]

Note I agreed with both Bluce and Shaved. Remember however that such things are jumping ahead of where they are in the show. They are trying to deal with the immune army and also protect and distribute the cure. And in that context getting any sort of recognizable government in view helps.

I don't know that we're jumping ahead as much as we are simply nitpicking the unrealistic aspects of the story. (In this regard we've been harder on a lot of other shows I admit.) Of course they have to come up with dramatic situations for the protagonists to encounter each week otherwise there wouldn't be a TV show. But sometimes it gets a little annoying when it skews too far from reality (in my view).

I guess we could argue what is realistic but my opinion is that in the world that the writers describe a vast majority of the population would be dead, including most of the people in government. And wrangling the survivors together over such a vast area as the continental United States would be near impossible. Any sort of coalescence into a nation that lives under one recognizable governing aegis would probably take place over generations, not simply months or even a few years.

Do we REALLY want to know how you know these things...?

Don't ask. Suffice to say once a cell mate always a cell mate.

 

[Overmind One]

I don't know that we're jumping ahead as much as we are simply nitpicking the unrealistic aspects of the story. (In this regard we've been harder on a lot of other shows I admit.) Of course they have to come up with dramatic situations for the protagonists to encounter each week otherwise there wouldn't be a TV show. But sometimes it gets a little annoying when it skews too far from reality (in my view).

I guess we could argue what is realistic but my opinion is that in the world that the writers describe a vast majority of the population would be dead, including most of the people in government. And wrangling the survivors together over such a vast area as the continental United States would be near impossible. Any sort of coalescence into a nation that lives under one recognizable governing aegis would probably take place over generations, not simply months or even a few years.



Don't ask. Suffice to say once a cell mate always a cell mate.

THIS. There would be the animus from the plague itself, a mistrust of how and why it destroyed Humanity (which is why remaining in a traditional military unit makes no sense to me), and I am just not seeing the appeal of resurrecting a government designed to manage millions of people under a capitalist structure. Especially not the United States. Like you said, it would likely be generations before any of the tribes which formed would unite into nations. This series presupposes that "rebuilding what was" is a good thing.

 

[Joelist]

Let's also remember that no one in the show is trying to do what you're concerned about. It really is about getting the cure produced and distributed and dealing with the immune army. They aren't trying to wrangle the whole continent into resurrecting the United States. Lest we forget their prior encounter with governmental authority before they spirited the actual President (by dint of Line of Succession) away from the immunes led to them having to fight against that government (Baltimore).

 

[Overmind One]

Let's also remember that no one in the show is trying to do what you're concerned about. It really is about getting the cure produced and distributed and dealing with the immune army. They aren't trying to wrangle the whole continent into resurrecting the United States. Lest we forget their prior encounter with governmental authority before they spirited the actual President (by dint of Line of Succession) away from the immunes led to them having to fight against that government (Baltimore).

It isnt fair for me to really comment, since I am not watching the show. The idea of this "Immune Army" is interesting. From what you have said, some sort of tribe has formed from those who are immune to the plague, and this tribe has taken their immunity as a sign of genetic superiority over the ones susceptible? They want the non immune to die from the plague?

 

[Joelist]

It isnt fair for me to really comment, since I am not watching the show. The idea of this "Immune Army" is interesting. From what you have said, some sort of tribe has formed from those who are immune to the plague, and this tribe has taken their immunity as a sign of genetic superiority over the ones susceptible? They want the non immune to die from the plague?

Yep. The "immune army" espouses a "master race" type of ideology and as such the cure to them is offensive because it preserves inferiors.

 

[Overmind One]

Yep. The "immune army" espouses a "master race" type of ideology and as such the cure to them is offensive because it preserves inferiors.

Interesting conflict. Supremacy based upon immunity and not eugenics.

 

[shavedape]

Well I called it pretty much on the head. Chandler has his panties in a knot exactly like I said he would.

 

[Joelist]

Well I guess to him murder is murder regardless of who it is that was murdered. Her flat out telling him she could have gotten the same effect without killing him did not help.

In any event he has much bigger problems, and thanks to her he doesn't have a key piece in waging what has turned partly into a propaganda war.

 

[YJ02]

Well I called it pretty much on the head. Chandler has his panties in a knot exactly like I said he would.

yes,quite ridiculous

to even be concerned that she offed a genocidal mass murderer--who seemingly did so as a type of "just because" science experiment--is a total waste of time

don't ask me to name a specific instance, but this Chandler doesn't seem to "square" with the one we met last year.

and for him to say "I will turn you over to the civilian authorities..in next port."

What!?!? Civie authorities? the freaking President is right on board--just use your "CPT's authority" find her guilty then have the Pres pardon her..done deal.

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I am getting very tired of these crazy immunes and their sub. what should have been a one or two episode appearance is getting milked out for half a season now..get it over with

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and lets not forget what has not been mentioned but has been slowly creeping in--the shipping!!

IDF girl wants her man pretty badly...no way to work around that. And Tex and the Doc...and redhaired sailor and "Wolfman"

--today's rule for show writing- try to write the drama, but, if it goes to hell, have some good shipping on standby

 

[Joelist]

I don't think the shipping is creeping in anything like you seem to think. Basically it has been one scene and was partly played for laughs. Like was said far upthread you can't have zero interpersonal stuff as then the people don't come off as human beings.

As to the Captain, she is a civilian so he doesn't have "Captain's authority" to find her guilty. If the President wants to pardon her he can do that anyway - he doesn't need a criminal verdict he just pardons her for all criminal acts between dates A and B.

As to the immunes, I like that they are getting a more substantial treatment and not just getting a blow off. The notion of people parlaying their immunity to a global pandemic into master race thinking is interesting, not to mention how they have lured other immunes to their ranks.

 

[shavedape]

Well I guess to him murder is murder regardless of who it is that was murdered. Her flat out telling him she could have gotten the same effect without killing him did not help.

In any event he has much bigger problems, and thanks to her he doesn't have a key piece in waging what has turned partly into a propaganda war.

Chandler is a bitch. Seriously, he comes across as a petulant high school girl. How convenient that he can blame her after the fact for getting him into a "Propaganda war". I'm sorry but that story line is just lame. There's no way this small rogue faction could sway the entire country against a ship that's there to bring help.

And how Dr. Scott held herself back from laughing in his face when he said that she was under lock down and then would be turned over to the authorities when they reached port is beyond me. Even with her new vaccine he still needs her. It's a fact that no one else is at her level of expertise when it comes to this virus. The history of the virus has been a huge struggle so Chandler would be a fool (is a fool) to think he can just toss her away because everything is fine now.

Dr. Scott should punch Chandler right in his underdeveloped testicles, piss on his face then drag him by his over-inflated head and toss him overboard -- and then assume command of the ship. At least a real man would be at the helm then.

 

[YJ02]

I don't think the shipping is creeping in anything like you seem to think. Basically it has been one scene and was partly played for laughs. Like was said far upthread you can't have zero interpersonal stuff as then the people don't come off as human beings.

As to the Captain, she is a civilian so he doesn't have "Captain's authority" to find her guilty. If the President wants to pardon her he can do that anyway - he doesn't need a criminal verdict he just pardons her for all criminal acts between dates A and B.

As to the immunes, I like that they are getting a more substantial treatment and not just getting a blow off. The notion of people parlaying their immunity to a global pandemic into master race thinking is interesting, not to mention how they have lured other immunes to their ranks.

well, to each his own...

DGMW, I mean this show is no FALLING SKIES, it is still entertaining and watchable, just wish they could keep up the writing and delivery as in the first season

 

[YJ02]

And not buying "I needed the crazy Norse guy" line from the CPT

the US population is already highly agitated and on edge against the NATHANJAMES thx to the immunes PR. What makes him think that if he put a creepy looking Dr on screen (a foreigner at that!) then all of a sudden he would be believed? As if that was enough to over rule all the neg PR the immunes are putting out about the ship

Besides as with the "I'll hand you over to the civvie authorities" nonsense, Chandler has THE CIVILIAN authority on board!!!! The immunes introduced the guy as the PRESIDENT! Duh! So he was intro'd to the nation as the POTUS by the immunes (those they trust for now) no reason to believe that he still would not make a better convincer in chief then spooky Nord man

 

[Joelist]

Oh I know that. I think he kind of lost his temper there.

Like I said upthread if they want to make it go away they have the right guy on the ship - ask him to pardon Scott. Were I the POTUS I would not need to be asked - I would have just gone and done it, but alas he is coming off a bit weak (no doubt why the immunes manipulated him before).

Now she DID put him in a spot as Slattery informed him - the feeling of the crew is that the guy was murdered with the approval of the officers. That kind of thing especially in these circumstances is bad news, as it can lead to everyone feeling they can just act out. And at that point discipline and cohesion are gone. Again the President could have bailed him out there by pardoning her publicly and doing it AFTER he comes down on her.

I do think they need to get rid of the President, as his presence on the ship IS affecting Chandler's command style. You're right when you noted that earlier (when we had no notion of any national command surviving) we had a more decisive Chandler. Now with the Commander in Chief not only located but on his ship he is deferential and it is not good. Maybe we can get Doctor Scott to take care of it?

Oh, and Rhona Mitra's acting when she offed Patient Zero was first class. She did a good "psycho" version of her Scott character.