The general Lack of Care from Doctors

Discussion in 'General Science Discussions' started by heisenberg, Dec 2, 2017.

  1. heisenberg

    heisenberg Earl Grey Staff Member

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    Has anyone here gone to the doctors and felt like they've been shortchanged and are only a number to them? I am not having a go at all doctors. There are some that have been very supportive/helpful and have helped out fixing problems, but I am talking about GPs and certain specialized doctors that so called specialize in certain fields such as sleep. These doctors are prescribing Antidepressants just like antibiotics without thinking about the core cause of it. I always think that a problem as a source but it seems that rather than fixing the problem at its source, doctors just want to plug the hole leak without really digging deep as to what causes it.

    Anyone feel this way? I have had a friend who had been getting antidepressants from doctors but I keep telling him not to listen to them as there are better ways of combating his depression. I told him to get his sleep fixed first which is the major cause of depression.

    Personally I think these negligent doctors should be sent behind bars. They are suppose to be a trust figurehead but instead seem to be immune from prescribing dangerous drugs.
     
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  2. Overmind One

    Overmind One GateFans Gatemaster Staff Member

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    We have discussed this here before. You have to understand, doctors and the heathcare industry in general is not interested in curing you of disease. They only want to TREAT your disease, because that is where the money is. If you get sick and I cure you, then you won't come back. If I instead give you some concoction which relieves you of the symptoms (but keeps you sick), then you will come back again and again to get the medication that relieves the symptoms. It is the EXACT same model as subscription antivirus programs and subscription services.

    Frankly, I refuse to take any prescription medicines. Why would I want to do that? I do not need them. Many people who are taking loads of medications do not realize that although they themselves might not be paying for them (Medicare), the doctors get paid for prescribing certain brands and certain procedures. They do not care if you need them or not. Depression can be dealt with by friendship with others, or pets, or games, or hobbies. To me, all those lab created products are poisons I do not need or want. People who want to take them will do so, and more power to them.

    The best defense against untrustworthy healthcare professionals and greedy doctors is GOOD HEALTH. You will not be getting that in a bottle.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
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  3. PussyGalore

    PussyGalore No sloots!

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    You're pissing into the wind on this one my friend. The healthcare industry is f***ed in many industrialized countries. I assumed in Oz it would be better than the US but I guess I was wrong. As it is I don't see it getting better for a very long time. There's too much corporate control over the industry and they aren't about to let release hold of their cash cow.

    I was recently talking to a friend about how ridiculous it is that one has to go to another country to get reasonably priced medical procedures when one already lives in the "richest" country on earth. For example, if I need a knee replacement procedure it will be cheaper for me to fly to Thailand and have it done verses doing it here in America. Seriously, it's actually cheaper to do it that way, and the facilities in places like Thailand are considered top notch. How crazy is that? Same with going down to Mexico for minor procedures and treatments. They are thousands of dollars cheaper than in America.

    And I should point out that insurance coverage has gotten much, much worse over the years. You have to pay out of pocket for a ton of stuff now and the deductibles are huge. Plus the cost of the premiums you pay each paycheck are crazy. I have no idea where that money is going because it's definitely not going towards covering patient expenses. (Actually I do know where that money is going -- directly into the pockets of health care corporations.)
     
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  4. heisenberg

    heisenberg Earl Grey Staff Member

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    But here is the thing though, they are telling you to buy generic brands which is not brand specific. Like the drug he was prescribed was ambien which should BE BANNED. That shit I have heard stories about it really fucking with your head so I told him to avoid it. Some doctors do want to cure your diseases but they don't do it unless you ask them really deep questions.
     
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  5. Overmind One

    Overmind One GateFans Gatemaster Staff Member

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    So, why isn't the doctor investigating the cause of the condition that the medication is supposed to be addressing? Ambien is a sleep enhancer/inducer, correct? If so, that implies that your friend has a sleep disorder. What is the cause of the disorder? Sure, he can take a pill and get artificially induced sleep, but the underlying condition is not being addressed. My doctor is now trained to expect me to ask probing questions. He is visibly annoyed when I do that, but he is not the one who is being asked to voluntarily swallow lab created synthetic chemicals, and I am not the one making money on them. I really don't give a shit that he is annoyed.
     
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  6. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    ---GP's have no business giving an rx for ANY mental issue without the person being screened a few times, by a mental health professional. one who CANNOT give a script (= no 'prizes' from the pharma company) like a psychologist or a social worker or some other pro counselor

    ---GP's give out stuff because they can!! and because they do get some kind of reward for quantity. no one in the business will ever admit this of course! i remember not that long ago when dr's were getting cruises, card airline miles and free tickets awarded to them in 'contests' held by big pharma drug reps. this was going on as recently as 12-13 yrs ago

    ---corporations and govt regs. so, in a brief opinion loosely based on the facts "they" want us to know and the rest on conjecture and connect the dots---why was alcohol banned in 1920 and then followed up by a ban on marijuana and certain other 'backyard medicinals' by the tax act in '37? i think it was from a growing pharma industry who wanted to get govt complicity in destroying the traditional competition for their new drugs.

    i am not going to get into when a certain drug came available, etc. but we do know that certain meds will not be released until the companies are sure they can sell thestuff. so if there was some drug created for say, anti anxiety in the 30's but their research showed many ppl used alcohol and mj for this (their shot at alcohol was over by then) then why wouldn't they push to get it made illegal (mj,etc)? protect their market

    --today, from experience i can tell you that my wife, who was given a very low dose of ativan way back before we knew any better, for anxiety-recently went through the ringer as a victim of this new 'war on opioids (in which benzo's are included as targets)' by the govt. a dr was following 'new guidelines from the govt' on rx's. she decided to switch my wife from ativan-a rx that has NEVER caused her any harm-to cymbalta.

    cymbalta being one of these new Frankenstein drugs that they make for one application then 'discover' it can be used for other things a well.

    so my wife takes it in trust, gains 66 lbs, develops bleeding in her intestines and bladder and then a loss of any anti anxiety effect from it after 6 months

    we finally found another dr who took her off of it and put her back on ativan and is addressing the other issues caused by cymbalta

    my opinion on the real reason for the switch? knowingly or not, the dr who stopped the ativan was following a corporate directed govt law change. they cover it up in public safety and 'drug war' stuff but it is about cash. i found out without much digging, that our insurance company pays -for a 3 month supply- less then $3 for ativan and over $1500 for cymbalta!!! that is pretty clear to me! and if benzo's are SOOOOO dangerous to public safety then why the fuck are they so cheap?! if safety were a real concern they would make the price artificially high as they have with tobacco


    yeah sure I KNOW there are a lot of addicted ppl from opioids and benzo's. why? a result of the liberal guidance given out from the fda in the late 80's and fully pushed by big pharma. sure it comes down to personal decision, but if you got a dr (a 'trusted' figure to many) saying 'go ahead, its ok, take these 10 days worth of oxycontin for your sprained ankle' most ppl are going to listen because of how we are taught to trust dr's. then some ppl (there is a biological and gentic predisposition for some to be 'weak' when it comes to addictions to anything-drugs, booze, sex, gambling, sugar, caffeine,etc), when the supply was gone, engage in illegality to get more

    but the manner in which they were brought on the market and then taken off and the prices involved (opioids are STILL rather cheap compared to other non narcotic pain mngt meds) strongly SUGGESTS corporate exploitation of a social crisis that they engineered

    its slime ball marketing 101
    ------------------------------------------------------------

    ALL OF THAT being said, i have found that the only dr's around here who are responsive to you and could care less--but still follow the law--are foreign born and educated ones. the americans operate with a visible fear in their eyes. fear of their med school bill, fear of losing their license, fear of losing the lifestyle they have come to enjoy,etc

    it seems that many foreigners are trained to respect the functions and dangers of meds and use them appropriately and not be concerned with corporate pressures. linked to this is the relatively low cost of med school in many foreign nations compared to the US.
     
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  7. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    so many of them do not realise that they ARE in business. and that we are not just patients but also customers.

    the are being paid either directly by you or in your name by insurance. take their attitudes to any other job and they would be fired

    --------------------
    relate to a dr indirectly how you 'get it' when they try to explain a biological function to you by saying it is a lot like mechanics and you understand how machines work

    if they are paying attn they will get the slight insult to them when you are comparing them to the guy who fixes your car. sure you are more complex and important, but they do not have a monopoly on knowledge and cannot make the reason why your muscles move your body any more complicated then a matter of energy supply, strength for a load and movement/acceleration. a way to protect their 'mystique' some hold them in

    part of the reason why some ppl treat dr's like sacred people
     
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  8. Overmind One

    Overmind One GateFans Gatemaster Staff Member

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    Actually there are many that do. Sadly, not even 30 years ago, the main reason to become a doctor was to become wealthy. The IT revolution threw that off track, and now most high level IT professionals make as much or more than doctors do. Lawyers make more than surgeons. Some doctors are ALSO lawyers!

    The bolded is the cash cow they are protecting. Sure, you might pay $2.00 for 30 tablets of a medication, but somebody else (insurance, Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, etc) paid the $200.00 for them behind the curtain. Annual vaccines, prescription meds that have to be refilled regularly, multiple "wellness visits" with their associated tests...all are basically different "subscriptions" of a sort, designed to get you to pay regular payments forever, as opposed to curing you of disease or helping you become healthy and NOT NEEDING THEM.

    Or, do your homework about what he tells you, ask questions and then be able to feed it back to him factually. That's the one my doctor hates the most. When he uses complex medical terminology, I take notes and then look them up later and ask any questions I need to, based on MY findings. What does being "pre-diabetic" having "impaired glucose tolerance" really mean? I looked it up and suggested my own treatment based on the findings (diet and exercise and not Metformin) and a regular blood panel every months for 6 months "to manage the condition".

    Exactly (the bolded). They do NOT have a monopoly on knowledge. Sometimes, they have less knowledge than you do even though they are the ones getting paid.
     
  9. PussyGalore

    PussyGalore No sloots!

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    Actually the patients are the ones paying more out of pocket suddenly. Insurance might have a low copay on prescriptions but most of those will be generic, not top-tier name brand stuff. I know I can't get the new name brand stuff that hasn't gone generic via my insurance. (No one I know can get the new stuff paid by insurance.) My doc prescribed me some eye drops once and my insurance wouldn't touch it. The pharmacy wanted $300 for a tiny bottle of drops that would last about a week. No thanks.

    It's crazy out there, just crazy. My buddy just had a skin biopsy done in the doctor's office. In the doctor's office, not in a surgery center or anything like that. The procedure took all of 30 seconds to perform and didn't require an attending nurse or anything. No stitches or staples. Just a bandaid. After his insurance "discount" he was left with a bill for $1500. That didn't include the lab charges which were close to $600. And this is with "good" employer insurance. :rolleye0014:
     
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  10. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    i am sorry i realise i wasn't too clear there, the $2.43 was tricare's cost!! ours was zero and it was for 270 caps

    same on the cymbalta- tricare's cost was over $1500
     
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  11. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    ok i agree in general, but the point is, once a 'trusted' figure as a dr (my wife was 20yrs younger then and from a country where dr's are trusted because they can be) put her on a strong benzo like ativan, she can't just stop taking them

    if you read-i think i said it, back then, the Dr- a local doc NOT a Army doc- put her on the stuff WITHOUT any consult to any mental health counseling

    perhaps if he had, then she would not be taking the stuff now and she would have never had the terrible experience with cymbalta


    hey- if you never had or have to take any of this stuff then good on ya! but some of us do; some out of choice some from necessity and/or being misinformed by dr's who we were brought up to always trust

    if in american we were taught i n school that medical ppl are just another facet of corporatism/capitalism, then perhaps we wouldn't trust them so easily without learning their merit first
     
  12. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    medical care is far over valued in america

    it has to be that way, now, or it would collapse

    why? well start with 4yrs of under grad, 4 yrs of med school, 4-6 yrs more or residency/fellowships and you have a huge education bill that can only be paid by hugely high med fees for everyone to get a piece

    it is probably one of the only careers where one can extort based on fear; a patient is expected to say yes to everything for fear of dying/ living in pain, so they will pay or authorize a billing to ins for everything suggested
    1

    refuse something and out come the legalities!!

    at one of the visits to the ER when she was having the intestinal bleeding, they did a CT scan first and ultrasounds. sure fine, tricare will pay our cost will be like $30

    then the dr comes in after these tests and says he needs a CT with contrast, says he can't think of any reason for the bleeding except my wife said she 'may' have strained her back--like why would that cause blood in her poop? pee maybe not poop though

    we both said no way. that is like $6000 they charge to tricare in her name for a 'fishing' expedition

    so they make her sign a 'refusal of treatment' statement. as if! she already gave blood, urine, ct and US, accepted IV and sat there for hours..how is that refusing treatment? its not, they are just covering their asses
     
  13. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    medical care is far over valued in america

    it has to be that way, now, or it would collapse

    why? well start with 4yrs of under grad, 4 yrs of med school, 4-6 yrs more or residency/fellowships and you have a huge education bill that can only be paid by hugely high med fees for everyone to get a piece

    it is probably one of the only careers where one can extort based on fear; a patient is expected to say yes to everything for fear of dying/ living in pain, so they will pay or authorize a billing to ins for everything suggested
    1

    refuse something and out come the legalities!!

    at one of the visits to the ER when she was having the intestinal bleeding, they did a CT scan first and ultrasounds. sure fine, tricare will pay our cost will be like $30

    then the dr comes in after these tests and says he needs a CT with contrast, says he can't think of any reason for the bleeding except my wife said she 'may' have strained her back--like why would that cause blood in her poop? pee maybe not poop though

    we both said no way. that is like $6000 they charge to tricare in her name for a 'fishing' expedition

    so they make her sign a 'refusal of treatment' statement. as if! she already gave blood, urine, ct and US, accepted IV and sat there for hours..how is that refusing treatment? its not, they are just covering their asses
     
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  14. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    already do that, they can't stand it. my dr at the va--i see the same guy at my local clinic all the time since 2005-has learned not to sling bullshit my way.
     
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  15. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    you know, anthropologists and others say that human specialization helped to civilize us. I agree

    but, this modern specialization, where a person YOU KNOW has been to 12 yrs of schooling after HS, is damaging to our society in general
     
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  16. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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