THE EXPANSE --it's premise, plot and socio-political implications

[Jim of WVa]

I cannot see the GOP lasting past this next election.

We will see.

 

[Overmind One]

We will see.

You are already seeing.

 

[YJ02]

Don't forget politicians who won't fund projects. It was nine years between the last manned moon landing and the first shuttle flight. It was nineteen years between the demise of Skylab and the launch of the ISS. It's been several years since the last shuttle flight without an replacement vehicle funded by NASA.

this is why space will go private and corporate

 

[Joelist]

Just a thought. Can we POSSIBLY keep this thread on its original topic? The EXPANSE show and by extension potential future space development in the solar system?

 

[Overmind One]

Just a thought. Can we POSSIBLY keep this thread on its original topic? The EXPANSE show and by extension potential future space development in the solar system?

I agree. But the politics of that show and it's premise invite commentary about today's politics. Let's moderate the thread so that it stays related to the show.

 

[Joelist]

I agree. But the politics of that show and it's premise invite commentary about today's politics. Let's moderate the thread so that it stays related to the show.

I sort of agree. On a more abstract level they do. However with the premise having Earth in a unified government centered on the UN with the Belt subsidiary to Earth and Mars as the only other political entity I would think it would have to be more abstract.

 

[Joelist]

And thinking about it this is one place I think Larry Niven's Known Space is better thought out than that of the Expanse. He also has the UN as the Earth government but Mars is basically uninhabited (it turned out to have some nasty indigenous life that greatly delayed colonization) and the Belt has gone off on its own politically. They have very friendly relations with Earth but are self governing (it came about over time and peacefully as the Belter culture that developed was too different from Earth).

 

[ecgordon]

In The Expanse, the mining operations and other industries in the Belt were all launched by Earth corporations, and for the most part they still control them. Detective Miller works for a security company called Star Helix, which is Earth based as well. Even though he was born in the Belt, his salary is paid from Earth, thus he is considered no better than an Earther to most in the Belt, especially OPA (the Outer Planets Alliance). I don't see that as any less plausible than an independent Belt culture.

 

[YJ02]

In The Expanse, the mining operations and other industries in the Belt were all launched by Earth corporations, and for the most part they still control them. Detective Miller works for a security company called Star Helix, which is Earth based as well. Even though he was born in the Belt, his salary is paid from Earth, thus he is considered no better than an Earther to most in the Belt, especially OPA (the Outer Planets Alliance). I don't see that as any less plausible than an independent Belt culture.

So--EVERYTHING IS controlled by corporatists "out there"

i am guessing that the UN and the Mars govt are also controlled by corporations as well--just a guess though

 

[shavedape]

Alien has really got me thinking about the coporatization of space. It was the first scifi story (for me) that brought that possibility home to roost. It only stands to reason that the first place to be exploited will be our own solar system. And how it gets divied up between corporate/political interests will be quite interesting. (And can make for a good fictional premise like, I assume, this story uses.)

 

[Joelist]

Oh Niven has corporations in his Known Space. They just are not Earth centered and not all powerful. The Belt (in that era - his Known Space timeline extends for millennia and includes a later stage of an interstellar and interspecies civilization) has its own corporations that do things like build ships, mine the asteroids and other such. They have independent merchants and contractors they work with in turn - in the novel Protector Jack Brennan is such an individual.

Later after planets outside the solar system are settled those planets likewise become autonomous governments.

If you want to read Known space (it is not a coherent single book but rather a bunch of stories), I recommend the following books:

Protector
Tales of Known Space
World of Ptavvs
The Long ARM of Gil Hamilton
Neutron Star

And of course:

Ringworld

 

[ecgordon]

Anyone else watch the show yet? The pilot was put online three weeks early, and officially premiered on Monday. Episode 2 aired last night, and immediately after they made the first four eps available to stream online at http://www.syfy.com/theexpanse/episodes.

I'll admit the pilot was a bit slow, especially if they intended to complete the first book's story line this season, but 2-4 have upped the pace considerably. Even though they've burned through a lot of story already, I still don't know if they can complete that arc, and everyone connected to the show continues to dodge that question.

 

[Joelist]

I saw the first one online (as noted upthread) and Episode 2 last night. Agreed it was much better than Episode 1 simply because it moved faster. It still told us next to nothing about the overarching story though.

 

[ecgordon]

The overarching story wasn't revealed in the book until past the mid-way point, and not even then completely. Have patience.

 

[Joelist]

The overarching story wasn't revealed in the book until past the mid-way point, and not even then completely. Have patience.

Which I understand.

On the good side they are revealing enough of the backstory so that there is context for character actions. That IMMEDIATELY puts it a level above Defiance where there was insufficient backstory to put characters into context. Add in the gorgeous SFX and the close adherence to scientific realities (like physics) and so far I am willing to keep watching.

 

[shavedape]

You guys were right, they get the science right in this one.

 

[Bluce Ree]

You are already seeing.

They will still exist. The xenophobic racist bigoted constituency still represents a significant segment of the population and gerrymandering is still happening in too many states.

 

[Overmind One]

They will still exist. The xenophobic racist bigoted constituency still represents a significant segment of the population and gerrymandering is still happening in too many states.

All of that is true, yes. But also true is that what we have been seeing consistently since 2002 is the shrinking Far Right xenophobic/racist segment. They are literally dying off and they are not being replaced nearly as quickly. I think it is a safe bet that there will NEVER be another Republican president in the White House again. GW Bush was the last. The politics of the far right are so out of touch with the American voting masses that they might as well be the Amish Party or the Flat Earth Party. Like you said, they will gerrymander, and they will come up with clever strategies to try and manipulate the votes, but as Mitt Romney saw in 2012, all of that and a bag of expensive chips is still not going to cut it. Spending billions in political advertising and lobbying is not going to make turd souffle any more appealing.

 

[Joelist]

And a second plea to keep it on the topic of the show?

 

[Overmind One]

And a second plea to keep it on the topic of the show?

Sorry...