True, if someone was issued a pistol they obviously had to qualify on it. Next time we meet I'll ask him. He served in a Heavy Weapons unit which may explain it too.
Target shooting
- Thread starter Joelist
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True, if someone was issued a pistol they obviously had to qualify on it. Next time we meet I'll ask him. He served in a Heavy Weapons unit which may explain it too.
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
there is not one thing that is esoteric about the 82nd!
don't believe the hype. lately, the USAF barely even as the money to do monthly jumps to keep the division on jump status
they also recently decided to close down Pope AFB (adjacent to Bragg) as the likelihood for there ever being another division combat jump very unlikely.
you tell me the guy's MOS and unit of assignment and I will get the MTOE-that will also reveal just who had what
don't believe the hype. lately, the USAF barely even as the money to do monthly jumps to keep the division on jump status
they also recently decided to close down Pope AFB (adjacent to Bragg) as the likelihood for there ever being another division combat jump very unlikely.
you tell me the guy's MOS and unit of assignment and I will get the MTOE-that will also reveal just who had what
He NEVER says a bad word about the Army. Says his buddies hated the M9 but then makes sure to say that does not mean they hated the Army or their unit or their officers. Very correct attitude - he'd make a good recruiter if he wasn't so gruff
What are you talking about?
I never said I believed any "hype". And the fact is that Airborne (or Air Assault) ARE esoteric unit types. They have a different TOE than Infantry or Armored formations and indeed are meant to be used in different situations. And I both know and am upset about the impact lack of funds has had on training cycles for ALL services. It goes beyond something like lack of practice aerial deployments - armor firing exercises are way down as are hours of flight training. It adversely affects readiness.
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
not true the 10th mtn, the 25th light inf, the 101st and the 82nd - all have the same MTOE for all maneuver and spt units!
i know this from being assigned to one of them (10 th mtn, BTW NOT a mountain division just in the name)
they all have the same vehicles and helo's, the same tents, cots, generators, portable field op centers, etc,etc
the 10th mtn, the 25th and the 101st air assault are all just as 'air assault' trained and ready as the other
there is even a fully functional air assault school at Ft Drum-runs a class every month
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soldiers are even assigned to the 82nd --if they are already in and mos q'd- on a volunteer basis. their remaining there is contingent upon them completing airborne school within a certain amount of time
likewise, soldiers from the 101st, the 82nd, the 25th and 10th mtn are always reassigned routinely to 'heavy' units like 2ID, or 2AD, etc based on their MOS NOT their additional skill id like parachutist or air assault. soldiers typically remain 'on station' in any one unit/major command of an avg of 3 to 4 yrs before PCS to another unit/post.
ALL soldiers are interchangeable among ALL units of the army-the only exceptions are SF and Ranger Regt.
Like I said I'll ask him.
The four units you listed may have had similar MTOE (they don't now as the 25th has converted one of its Infantry BCTs to a Stryker BCT - you know how it is the units are always a changing
).
And I am aware of the volunteer basis for assignment and the airborne school requirement. Also that there is a tendency to move personnel around based on MOS and not necessarily any additional skill ids.
It makes me really wonder how the latest reorganization of the entire Army into BCTs where the Divisions are more or less just HQs is going to affect unit cohesion - it means the Army is shifting from a paradigm where the basic maneuver unit was a Division to one where it is the BCT. If they keep to it once it is complete for long enough the "identity" of the units will naturally flow from these BCTs instead of Divisions over time.
The four units you listed may have had similar MTOE (they don't now as the 25th has converted one of its Infantry BCTs to a Stryker BCT - you know how it is the units are always a changing
). And I am aware of the volunteer basis for assignment and the airborne school requirement. Also that there is a tendency to move personnel around based on MOS and not necessarily any additional skill ids.
It makes me really wonder how the latest reorganization of the entire Army into BCTs where the Divisions are more or less just HQs is going to affect unit cohesion - it means the Army is shifting from a paradigm where the basic maneuver unit was a Division to one where it is the BCT. If they keep to it once it is complete for long enough the "identity" of the units will naturally flow from these BCTs instead of Divisions over time.
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
Like I said I'll ask him.
The four units you listed may have had similar MTOE (they don't now as the 25th has converted one of its Infantry BCTs to a Stryker BCT - you know how it is the units are always a changing
And I am aware of the volunteer basis for assignment and the airborne school requirement. Also that there is a tendency to move personnel around based on MOS and not necessarily any additional skill ids.
It makes me really wonder how the latest reorganization of the entire Army into BCTs where the Divisions are more or less just HQs is going to affect unit cohesion - it means the Army is shifting from a paradigm where the basic maneuver unit was a Division to one where it is the BCT. If they keep to it once it is complete for long enough the "identity" of the units will naturally flow from these BCTs instead of Divisions over time.
i believe that styrker bde of the 25th is in alaska, yes? that was never a part of the main 25th id. 25th id, for a very long time, was a 2 bde divison, just like 10th mtn was. there used to be a 'separate' bde in alaska for the longest time. it was always a combined heavy and light bde based there solely for the soviet threat to alaska. i do not remember the designation it was.
when the cold war ended and the army was looking for ways to modularize, they reflagged that bde as part of the 25th and made it a stryker unit, though that bde and the 25th main div has little to do with one another
it is a similar thing to the 2ID where it used to be entirely in Korea. Now it is based at Base Lewis/McChord with 2 BDE's, a DIVARTY, and all the spt and aviation bde's/sep units. BUT, a 'rump' bde--the biggest bde in the army (!) remains in Korea and is commanded by a general--probably the only bde in the army to be commanded by a general. the bde in korea is mainly MLRS arty and attack aviation with a air assault bn and a mech bde there to serve as force protection.
but korea is a unique situation
the 10th mtn was a 2 bde unit as well. after 2001 with deploying to astan, they started to build a 3rd bde at Drum and a 4th bde at Polk in Louisiana. this required actual physical construction at a massive level of more baracks and other facilities for units and families at drum. now that the army is going back to pre war levels, all of that new stuff at drum is becoming vacant!
and yes, the BDE concept is changing every part of the army
it does allow for a faster deployment of forces as bde's are structured with all of the spt units they need to deploy before deployment. in 90 for ex-in the 24th id, we were not organized thatway. yes there were 2 bde cmd structures, but the who and what of arty,ada, engineer, supply and medical and signal support for each bde was undetermined and fluid and was left to deployment time. thuis resulted in piecemeal deployment. We can still count ourselves VERY lucky that Iraq had shit intell and did not continue into Saudi--it would have bee na disaster in those first weeks of deployment.
a drawback of the new system is that it includes ion the total count of deployable bde's, the national guard bde's. on paper, this should be ok, but in practice it is not. before 9/11 to help wioth guard readiness, the army started assigning nco's and officers from active units to guard units where they would go to work everyday and help with trng and planning,etc. this did not last long and then 9/11 happened. the army knew that the guard was not ready and would always have issues with being ready to deploy as fast as even the slowest and heaviest active unit < example, in 90, the 48th bde of the GA nat guard was supposed to deploy with us in the 24th ID. by the time the war started in 91, they still had not loaded one vehicle at port and very few of their personnel actually deployed. most of them were at NTC in cali where they were trying toget certified for deployment>
this bde concept also allows for joint deployments < this is something many USMC vets will deny and/or have massive issues over but it does and will continue to happen> of army and usmc bde's
there is a reason why so much of the main weapons systems and vehicles are the same between the svc's
a bde in this concept may have a USMC LAV BN and armor deploy with a light inf bn from 10th mtn along with its arty spt and other spt units from the 10th mtn
a example of this in action on a much smaller scale is the structure of the deployed unit to Iraq and in Syria now
for example, in Northern Syria now, there is a army stryker unit along with some units of the 75th rangers being spt'd by USMC arty and attack air. in the south of syria there are USMC and ARMY MLRS/HIMARS units in spt of marine infantry and being spt'd by army aviation and army supply/signal,etc
they started this mostly in astan a few yrs back in company sized units of inf. mostly 'army long range surveilance/marine recon' combo units. these would even have integrated cmd structures like an army cpt and a marine 1SG. this is mind blowing to vets, btw
one very easy to find example of such a unit was in a MEDAL OF HONOR presentation where a MARINE SGT and a ARMY CPT and others from both branches (who received lesser awards) were awarded for action as part of the same unit in the same fight.
of course al ot of this modularization gone too far and joint ops.deployments IS a result of having had a democratic admin in office that insisted on the DoD doing more with less. so the pentagon just started coming up with unconventional solutions
not long after trump took office,and this is little reported i was told by ppl in army recruiting i still know, it is no secret, the army already had a yearly recruiting mission of about 60k for this yr, after trump took office, congress added about 11 k to the army's number-so about 71k new recruits by 1 oct and they added about 5k to the USMC mission
this has created a new round of bonus offering for recruits; my daughter goes to basic this month and she will be getting a $ 40k bonus when she completes job trng (PATRIOT MISSILE FIRE DIRECTION SPECIALIST)
they were not on track to make the initial mission as it was! I doubt the money will help much
in short, the military is always being tossed about with someones great ideas, then reformed-as if it were anew idea-to the way it was before that change. a small ex? now you will read where NCO's who were not even in the army when the change was made, talking about the army switching back to boots that can be shined for garrison, non field duty! as if this were some new previously unheard of idea. whether boots or weapons or structure, it is always fluid.
sorryfor the long post! and pls, do not take what i was saying about your friends personally, it is only about the way some ppl will distort things, even innocently, to try and impress or just make things more interesting that makes me upset. i have nothing against you or him---how could i through the internet anyhow?
No worries!
I agree that the latest reorg seems to be the result of someone's bright idea to create interchangeable part units to supposedly make rapid deploying easier.
The Marines already have a version of this organization in place and have had for a while. Their highest unit level is the MEF which contains one of the three full Marine Divisions plus a lot of other stuff. Then each of the MEFs has a variable number of MEBs and/or MEUs attached. This dates back a bit and in any case Marine unit identity has historically revolved more around the Regiment than the Division anyway.
I agree that the latest reorg seems to be the result of someone's bright idea to create interchangeable part units to supposedly make rapid deploying easier.
The Marines already have a version of this organization in place and have had for a while. Their highest unit level is the MEF which contains one of the three full Marine Divisions plus a lot of other stuff. Then each of the MEFs has a variable number of MEBs and/or MEUs attached. This dates back a bit and in any case Marine unit identity has historically revolved more around the Regiment than the Division anyway.
As to the 25th, they seem to have 4 BCTs now with two in Alaska.
And I HEARTILY agree that Guard units should not be counted with regular troops. They are not at the same state of readiness among other reasons.
Even with the additional allotment of recruiting I do wonder if they are going to hit the force level of 473,000. Then there are the questions of training time, of replacing worn out equipment (which is currently a serious issue in all services) and so on.
And I HEARTILY agree that Guard units should not be counted with regular troops. They are not at the same state of readiness among other reasons.
Even with the additional allotment of recruiting I do wonder if they are going to hit the force level of 473,000. Then there are the questions of training time, of replacing worn out equipment (which is currently a serious issue in all services) and so on.
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
i started a thread on here about the army recycling old equipment at a site in utah or some place out west
stuff that was 'mothballed' and normally kept in storage for a massive war or for foreign sales is being pulled out and renewed and sent to active units.
the politicos want to buy all new stuff, the army and other services know they have the equipment on hand and can repair and revamp it..but that doesn't cost as much nor sound sexy at election time!
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
shhhhh! don't tell OM1, but the idea--long dead, then resurrected, then dead and zombie-fied-of making the USMC part of the Army is till out there.
on army convo forums, younger officers of the usmc and the army have been informally talking of consolidation
young enlisted marines want to live like the army; Marine nco's and officers want the 'buying power' of the army for supplies, parts and trng
look for it to become an official campaign once these junior officers get to the field grade level....
the Canada Forces model is one that many in the DoD look up to....
True enough. Some of the stuff can be rebuilt and redeployed (like the Abrams tanks - they were designed to allow it). Others get to the point where metal fatigue and other issues mean new parts are needed. Airframes get to the point where they can crack from metal fatigue for example. Small arms barrels and magazines can get worn to the point of unusability.
Spare parts - another of those non-glamorous areas that gets neglected.
Spare parts - another of those non-glamorous areas that gets neglected.
That was one funny thing about my training and in effect requalifying. With 9mm and also .22 and .380 I wasn't very accurate. It turned out the smaller round was giving me the whole "waggly nose" syndrome. So we tried me on an M1911 Series 80 chambered in .45ACP and my accuracy went way up. The heavier barrel and all metal construction (heavier gun) may have been a factor - of course it could also be memory as M1911 is what I qualified on previously.
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
you could always go with a .357 mag---that's heavy and a big 'announcement' to go along with it....
"boom, boom"
could you imagine firing a .357 semi auto? sheesh!!
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were you in the military before? Navy?
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
How about this?
And...yep. Navy (was it that obvious? I figured my posts in the Last Ship thread showed it)
.50 calibre handgun is just absurd.... just more 'ammo' for all those anti gun ppl when they see stuff like that.
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i thought you had either came out and said it or you strongly suggested you were in the navy in TLS thread.
what was your rate/job?
YJ02
Well Known GateFan
is that torpedo's ?