Target shooting

Discussion in 'Hobbies' started by Joelist, Jul 6, 2017.

  1. Joelist

    Joelist I'm showing this for a reason! Staff Member

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    FYI, I have taken up target shooting as something to improve eye-hand coordination.

    It's turned out to be fun, first in getting my civilian qualification and second in relearning old skills (it resembles requalifying on pistols). My best weapon has turned out to be heavier - an M1911 Series 80 Government Model.

    When firing the lighter polymer guns in 9mm and .380 my targeting was always off; I had a real problem with the gun muzzle moving. With the .45ACP I am getting nice, close groupings on or near center. At present I am out to 25 yards but will be increasing distance soon. I think it is the heavier weight of the all steel weapon which helps me stay lined up properly.

    Interesting.
     
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  2. Lord Ba'al

    Lord Ba'al GateFans Member

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    Never fired a gun. Never touched a gun. Rarely ever see a gun. Except on cops or military personel. Funnily it's not uncommon to see a cop with a machine gun. I wouldn't mind learning how to handle guns though. I'm curious in regard to whether or not I would be any good at it. What I'm more curious about yet though is how I could handle a bow and arrow, or a crossbow.
     
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  3. Joelist

    Joelist I'm showing this for a reason! Staff Member

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    Archery would probably vary according to strength - fully drawing a longbow for example takes some muscle. A crossbow is more like a rifle except that there is no recoil to speak of. Both can be fun.

    Accurate pistol firing revolves around the correct grip and stance and even proper breathing. Also while you need to respect the recoil of the piece don't let it intimidate you. For me it seems to be coming naturally back to me - like I said upthread it is a bit like requalifying on pistols.
     
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  4. Overmind One

    Overmind One GateFans Gatemaster Staff Member

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    I hate guns. However, I am a good marksman and currently still a gun owner (9mm Glock 19). I have a personal moral aversion to guns, but I also feel that ownership of at least a personal handgun in THIS America is basically a must. Being in the military showed me exactly why a firearm, any firearm, MUST be regularly maintained if one is to expect it to function properly when/if the need arises.

    Joelist brought up some factors which play into properly and accurately handling a pistol. This is VERY important, because there are so many different types of handguns made of so many different materials. The weight of the gun is important because it determines how you aim and judge recoil when firing multiple rounds.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
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  5. Joelist

    Joelist I'm showing this for a reason! Staff Member

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    I don't hate guns - I'm not in love with them either. I have ex-military friends who when I visit like to shoot for target practice also (M4, AKM, .30-.06) and I'm decent on those. I like the hand eye practice this is giving me plus I have to admit stripping and cleaning an M1911 is actually fun. Would I actually use it on a human being? I SERIOUSLY doubt it and fervently hope the situation never arises. I keep it disabled with a gun lock and in a gun safe with the ammunition in a different place that is not obvious.
     
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  6. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    WHAT?!?!?!?

    YOU RIGHT WING, GUN LOVING, GUN NUT!!!!

    I NEED TO FIND A SAFE PLACE NOW....YOUR POST MAKES ME FEEL IN DANGER !!! :hide;



    A very high level of sarcasm should be detected---kidding!
     
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  7. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    seriously though...

    having used handguns while in the Army--never assigned one, but used them while helping to run both .45 range then 9 mm range--i find them to be useless weapons

    all the officers want to have one as their assigned weapons (not all do, most officers are assigned m16/m4) but when we deployed, they all wanted a rifle instead!

    if a determined enemy gets so close that you can effectively use a 9mm--25-30 meters-then your situation is screwed anyhow. better call for a arty strike on your pos then try to beat back the enemy with that limited range pop gun

    and for personal civvie protection? i guess the mere sight of a allowed open carry handgun could make a good deterrent against someone who would do harm...but who am i to say-don't live and will never live in any urban area ever again

    i have put this up on here before-i have a few rifles. now i only have 2. i still have the forst 30-30 my father gave me. i never use it, just keep it clean and safe sentimental reasons/ gift from dad, etc

    the rifle i use for practical app's is a Mossberg .22 semi auto rifle. it is styled after a M4 though does not function as a M4/16 would. it has a 25 rd capacity and is very reliable and has a high potential for user accuracy--unlike a semi auto of higher calibre which tend to have a bigger field of dispersion.

    this is an excellent weapon for use against pests in the yard; raccoons, opossum, skunks-at long range :) !, snakes,etc

    the semi auto means that one can keep a running raccoon in your sight picture without having to break the sight picture to chamber another round and the reacquire the target.

    i find nothing 'fun' or enjoyable about it. i do not criticize those who do-so long as they do so responsibly, then whatever floats your hovercraft....

    i have always seen-as did my father-a rifle as a tool like any other in the shed or on the shelf. it has a specific function and time and place for use. care for it and maintain it as you would any other tool.

    IMO, there are too many ppl who are either at the point or approaching the point of object devotion. that is, many with collections 'worship' and minister to their weapon as if they were religious icons--much like the Japanese and the katana.

    that is a dangerous and mentally unhealthy path.

    -----------------------------------------------

    now archery can be a lot of fun and done right, can be a healthy way to build inner discipline. use a re-curve bow..like a long bow. no sites, just dead aim along the arrow shaft. make on the spot mental adjustments for wind and distance,etc. As a teenager, me and a few friends used to go to a woodland archery range--that is various targets at different spots in the woods with different levels of difficulty and range. kind of like golfing.

    compound bows kind of take "something" away from all of that though
     
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  8. Joelist

    Joelist I'm showing this for a reason! Staff Member

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    Yah. Same thing with a pistol. Just a tool. Got to admit I like the classic lines and all metal construction on the M1911, and the workmanship on it is excellent.

    Military wise, the sidearm is always Plan B. Of course the Assault Rifle/Carbine is Plan A. Pilots flying over enemy territory of course always fly with a sidearm in the event they have to bail out. Some officers want to carry them but again they are Plan B. Special Forces carry sidearms and so do Marine MEU troopers. And Airborne are issued one in addition to their M4 if they are parachute deploying.

    Navy wise, the smaller surface vessels like DDGs train and equip with pistols, carbines, rifles and MGs because they now also perform anti-smuggling and anti-piracy roles. Larger ships have Marine detachments. Submarines only carry handguns unless they have a Special Forces unit embarked for insertion.
     
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  9. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    i have never met one airborne-on status, solider who ever had a sidearm issued them unless they were a medic, a CSM or 1SG or a staff officer. it may be a thing of the past though...

    pilots should have an M4 attached in their ejection seat. a shot down pilot is nothing more then a poorly trained and equipped infantryman behind the lines, they should have a better weapon

    now see, when i buy a hammer, say, i look to make sure it has good construction; tight welds, a fiberglass handle or a very good hardwood one. It must be heavy enough to 'deliver' but lite enough to be swinging for a long time. I do not see anything 'attractive' about the construction--just opinions i guess :)
     
  10. Joelist

    Joelist I'm showing this for a reason! Staff Member

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    The airborne info I have from one of my ex-military friends who was in Iraq and Afghanistan with the 82nd Airborne. They all had the M9 is addition to their M4 and utterly hated it. So did the SEALS which is what another friend of mine (the one who likes to target shoot with an M4 derivative and an AKM) was part of - he said they went with M1911s because they disliked the M9 also.

    Regarding pilots, remember that the pistol is just there as part of their survival package. It takes up far less space than a carbine (which is why we only had pistols where I served - space was at a total premium).

    As to the look and feel, it is indeed just opinions. I like the heavier weight and stability and I am decently accurate with it. :)
     
  11. Joelist

    Joelist I'm showing this for a reason! Staff Member

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    And for your viewing pleasure......

     
  12. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    all i can say is be wary of 'war stories' :)
     
  13. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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  14. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    the winner in the army's search for a new handgun. the Sig Sauer P320 will be issued to units over the next 10 years as direct replacements for the M9. 101st 'airborne' division is first on the list for fielding.

    of course the 101st is NOT a airborne division but a air assault/light infantry division- decision to field them first comes from optempo and future mission deployments.

    weapons allotment per unit are determined by the unit's MTOE and weapon assignments based on position, not only rank. So a chaplain will not have any weapon because they are chaplains-the fact that he or she is an officer does not matter.

    every army doctor and nurse will be issued a handgun as a personally assigned weapon when deployed/ to the field for trng. It is common belief that they need to have at least a handgun as a defensive measure to defend their patient in case of attack

    a staff officer -THE staff officer, like the actual S3 operations officer, or the unit cdr and XO, will have a handgun assigned them, other staff officers will have a m4 assigned to them.

    a unit CSM or 1SG will have a handgun assigned them because their position does not put them into direct combat no matter their unit type. if that 1SG become a MSG on staff, he will then have a M4 assigned to him.

    there are simply not enough handguns in the army inventory to be assigning one to every soldier-no matter the unit. spec op units have separate budgets and have the leeway to 'local purchase' weapons they deem necessary for their missions.

    the army has ordered 280,000 of the sigs for now and have atotal wish list for 500,000 over the next decade. there are -as of now, 1,030,000 soldiers total (active, reserve and guard)

    to give a handgun to every member of the 82nd would not be practical as the unit is not used in deployments any more often then any other unit is. like the USMC has not been used for amphibious assault, the 82nd has not been used for an airborne op since 1989 in panama- the airborne op in iraq in 03 was conducted by the sep 173 airborne bde based in Italy. so no 'special' reason to over stock the 82nd with anything.

    not even all tankers and other soldiers who operate in space restricted vehicles have handguns. most tankers of today- as well as many blackhawk crew chiefs-are assigned M4's

    https://www.armytimes.com/articles/...ing-first-to-the-101st-airborne-fort-campbell
     
  15. Joelist

    Joelist I'm showing this for a reason! Staff Member

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    They are not going to lie - and they both were active duty until 2015. Remember that both of them are not in typical rifle units (Navy SEALS and Airborne). Your typical rifle unit obvious isn't carrying two weapons.
     
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  16. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    i have heard stories of all kinds from recent vets. many of the simply unbelievable from the start were just that after verification through others--

    some of the zingers--

    "i carried this m1911 to astan with me. its mine-my father took it to vietnam and my grandfather had it in WW2"

    nope--personally owned weapons on deployment are pretty much limited to small knife,. and besides, just how would you be able to get ammo when deployed for a calibre the army does not have?

    "i had to buy my own body armor from ISrael to take to Iraq"

    Bull! the army has been issuing body armor-kevlar vests to start with-since the late 80's. sure they were not the best but they were in the hands of every solider who deployed. the vests were replaced by the Interceptor Body armor/ outer tactical vest in 2006/07

    "i had to get a SAT phone with my own money because the army didn't have radios for us"

    nonsense! heard sim stories with GPS receivers. you are issued a radio either for yourself or your vehicle /op center if you OR your section is authorized one! same with GPS.. sorry, but the Cooks just do not need radios or GPS!

    there are many many war stories out there--they go in the same category of the stolen valor type of thing with the thought pattern behind them; people either did nothing (didn't deploy/ deployed but did not leave the FOB) and so make up stories worth telling. it has been going on for decades.
     
  17. Joelist

    Joelist I'm showing this for a reason! Staff Member

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    I never said "every" soldier carries one. I said (per my Airborne friend) that they are issued IF they are deploying by parachute. Mr. Airborne said his unit all had them - he probably is in one of the unit types designated to carry sidearms. The listing I gave lines up with yours except that I also covered other services.
     
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  18. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    the 82nd is not any kind of 'special unit' and is certainly not akin to any kind of spec op unit. they are simply men and women of standard army mos's who have the additional skill identifier of airborne.

    the division is not considered any more priority or 'special' then any other light infantry division in the XVIII airborne corp

    as for the SEAL you know, far different story of course

    ask the guy you know from the 82nd for his 'pistol' qualification bar. if he was assigned a pistol he would of had to qual on it, and as such would have been awarded the bar that goes with the qual level badge. if he is out now, this would be noted on his DD214.

    if it is on there, then I would believe him. you can see from the comments i linked,some from still serving paratroopers in the 82nd, that they do not have a double issue of weapons
     
  19. Joelist

    Joelist I'm showing this for a reason! Staff Member

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    Sorry, but I know these guys and trust them. We've been there for each other and we don't lie to each other. Note I said both are in more esoteric areas of the military.
     
  20. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    those would be MP's. a hospital unit or potentially a public affairs/psy ops unit. even in those units not everyone is assigned a handgun

    the army does not issue a different weapon for particular missions. you go to war with the weapon you are assigned and zeroes/qual'd with. they are no 'extra weapons' just laying about

    i am not trying to argue, it is just that these kind of guys are out there by the dozens. they tell huge stories mostly putting the army in a bad light and it makes me upset.

    if he has the qual on his dd214, then he is telling the truth
     
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