Star Wars VII - The Force Awakens

[Gatefan1976]

 

[YJ02]

Sounds reasonable. They obviously are dealing with some type of successor group to the Empire. Plus it avoids claiming there are more Sith.

i can imagine there still being a separate and opposing 'imperial remnant' as well

know that could make things intertesting...

 

[Overmind One]

i can imagine there still being a separate and opposing 'imperial remnant' as well

know that could make things intertesting...

Aren't the Jedi returned and all? These Star Wars movies make the Jedi seem like a weak order. They cannot hold on to control for 30 measly years?

 

[Gatefan1976]

Aren't the Jedi returned and all? These Star Wars movies make the Jedi seem like a weak order. They cannot hold on to control for 30 measly years?

Why would the Jedi be back?

 

[YJ02]

Aren't the Jedi returned and all? These Star Wars movies make the Jedi seem like a weak order. They cannot hold on to control for 30 measly years?

like i said, the galaxy is a big place

even when the jedi numbered in the hundreds of thousands,they did not control large portions of it

when the rebellion won the battle of yavin, they only won that battle. the emperor and his chief enforcer, Vader were dead, thats all

hundreds of legions of imperial soldiers and stormtroopers as well as thousands of ships remained in the control of the empire

there is a new canonical book where the immediate time after this victory is shown as a time of brutal crackdown and control by the emperor's successor

a new hope-return of the jedi,etc, seem to be better descriptors for the drama and story of one family and its adherents-the Skywalkers, Kenobi, Han Solo, etc not the entire galaxy

 

[Overmind One]

Why would the Jedi be back?

Because the last movie of the series before this was titled "Return of the Jedi"? The movie ended on Endor with all the "good" Jedi back in the Force, and Leia in the wings. I imagined that Leia and Han Solo would have had little Jedi by now, and that Luke became a Master and trained yet more. That obviously did not happen...

 

[Gatefan1976]

Because the last movie of the series before this was titled "Return of the Jedi"? The movie ended on Endor with all the "good" Jedi back in the Force, and Leia in the wings. I imaged that Leia and Han Solo would have had little Jedi by now, and that Luke became a Master and trained yet more. That obviously did not happen...

Return of the Jedi was in reference to Luke coming back, as a jedi dude
Luke does become a master, and yes, Han and Leia do have litte Jedi (well, in the EU), but that's hardly an Order, is it?
In the EU, there are about 50-80 Jedi.

 

[Overmind One]

Return of the Jedi was in reference to Luke coming back, as a jedi dude
Luke does become a master, and yes, Han and Leia do have litte Jedi (well, in the EU), but that's hardly an Order, is it?
In the EU, there are about 50-80 Jedi.

Still, the Jedi have their own Council, they have the most advanced and extensive Archive in the galaxy, and they "were" so revered that sate leaders and military generals sought them out and respected them as commanders in chief (just about ). Why all that, and they get their asses kicked? Im exaggerating, of course. I want a "super Jedi" Somebody who can make fire.

 

[Joelist]

We'll see what happens. It sounds like the First Order is a sort of successor organization to the Empire. Plus remember that at the end of Return of the Jedi there was exactly one Jedi - Luke. Now in thirty years he no doubt has trained up some others but he is starting from a base of one, and with no library or such either (the Emperor destroyed all that).

 

[Overmind One]

We'll see what happens. It sounds like the First Order is a sort of successor organization to the Empire. Plus remember that at the end of Return of the Jedi there was exactly one Jedi - Luke. Now in thirty years he no doubt has trained up some others but he is starting from a base of one, and with no library or such either (the Emperor destroyed all that).

The Emperor could have used the knowledge in that library to great advantage.

 

[shavedape]

We'll see what happens. It sounds like the First Order is a sort of successor organization to the Empire. Plus remember that at the end of Return of the Jedi there was exactly one Jedi - Luke. Now in thirty years he no doubt has trained up some others but he is starting from a base of one, and with no library or such either (the Emperor destroyed all that).

I'm not saying that you're wrong but couldn't it be possible that there were more Jedi's in hiding? Remember how we were introduced to "Old Ben Kenobi" who turned out to be a Jedi living under the radar. So there is that possibility that some old Jedi's are still kicking around. But I would also think that Luke would have trained several more in the intervening years.

 

[Gatefan1976]

The Emperor could have used the knowledge in that library to great advantage.

He had to get rid of it.
Remember, The Jedi were the guardians of peace and justice for thousands of years, and in the space of 30, he turned them, and the force itself into myths that no one really believed in anymore. That takes more than just some history book redaction

 

[Joelist]

Yoda specifically stated in RotJ that when he died Luke would be the last of the Jedi. Ergo Luke is the last of the Jedi so he is starting from a base of just himself in rebuilding the order.

 

[shavedape]

Yoda specifically stated in RotJ that when he died Luke would be the last of the Jedi. Ergo Luke is the last of the Jedi so he is starting from a base of just himself in rebuilding the order.

How would Yoda have total knowledge of this fact? Case in point, Vader didn't know Ben and Yoda were alive and he had Jedi powers. (I know I'm splitting hairs and nitpicking. Just thought it was an interesting point to ponder.)

 

[Gatefan1976]

I'm not saying that you're wrong but couldn't it be possible that there were more Jedi's in hiding? Remember how we were introduced to "Old Ben Kenobi" who turned out to be a Jedi living under the radar. So there is that possibility that some old Jedi's are still kicking around. But I would also think that Luke would have trained several more in the intervening years.

Sure, Jedi's that survived order 66, and non Jedi force users could have survived, BUT again, Palpatine built an inquisitorial force to hunt them down and either turn them, or kill them and gave the carte blanche on the entire resources of the empire to do it. He also started progroms against the non human's as well. I am sure there are some force users out there trained by Luke, but it's a 10-15 year commitment for a master to take someone from Padawan to Jedi Knight, and they are supposed to be trained by a single master past youngling stage. You would get exponential growth after the first generation, sure, but they would be starting the 3rd generation -at best- when this movie is set, AND you would have to overcome the damage done by Palpatine as he reduced belief in the force to a myth.

 

[Gatefan1976]

How would Yoda have total knowledge of this fact? Case in point, Vader didn't know Ben and Yoda were alive and he had Jedi powers. (I know I'm splitting hairs and nitpicking. Just thought it was an interesting point to ponder.)

Obi wan and Yoda hid in places strong in the darkside so they would not get noticed.

 

[shavedape]

Sure, Jedi's that survived order 66, and non Jedi force users could have survived, BUT again, Palpatine built an inquisitorial force to hunt them down and either turn them, or kill them and gave the carte blanche on the entire resources of the empire to do it. He also started progroms against the non human's as well. I am sure there are some force users out there trained by Luke, but it's a 10-15 year commitment for a master to take someone from Padawan to Jedi Knight, and they are supposed to be trained by a single master past youngling stage. You would get exponential growth after the first generation, sure, but they would be starting the 3rd generation -at best- when this movie is set, AND you would have to overcome the damage done by Palpatine as he reduced belief in the force to a myth.

There could also be attrition to the dark side in Luke's new Jedi ranks. Just sayin'.

 

[YJ02]

We'll see what happens. It sounds like the First Order is a sort of successor organization to the Empire. Plus remember that at the end of Return of the Jedi there was exactly one Jedi - Luke. Now in thirty years he no doubt has trained up some others but he is starting from a base of one, and with no library or such either (the Emperor destroyed all that).

again-its a big galaxy

and the movies are mainly about one family

yes Yoda and Kenobi say they are the last Jedi (or did they?) Perhaps not to allow Luke to beg off his trng "Hey there is other Jedi? Let them do it."

Now with REBELS and other known info-like other Order 66 survivors- there may indeed be many survivors in this vast galaxy-not to mention all of the force sensitives

what does it have? something like "hundreds of inhabited worlds"

 

[Gatefan1976]

There could also be attrition to the dark side in Luke's new Jedi ranks. Just sayin'.

Indeed there was in the EU, more than one fell to the darkside. How this plays out -now- however is anyone's guess. The bad guy could be an ex student, or he could have been one of the Emperors other flunkies. Palpatine seems to have thrown out a lot of the "rule of two" after becoming Emperor, even beforehand to a degree to allow Dooku to train Asaj Ventriss.

 

[YJ02]

I'm not saying that you're wrong but couldn't it be possible that there were more Jedi's in hiding? Remember how we were introduced to "Old Ben Kenobi" who turned out to be a Jedi living under the radar. So there is that possibility that some old Jedi's are still kicking around. But I would also think that Luke would have trained several more in the intervening years.

and we don't know how REBELS will play out--depending on its ending we could still have Ashoka Tano, Ezra and Kanan still out there