Star Wars Episode IX director fired!

Discussion in 'Fantasy Movies' started by PussyGalore, Sep 5, 2017.

  1. PussyGalore

    PussyGalore Kiss mah grits!

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  2. Lord Ba'al

    Lord Ba'al GateFans Member

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    Unfortunately we will never know whether his episode IX would have been better or worse than the episode IX we will be getting now, whomever will be directing it.
     
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  3. PussyGalore

    PussyGalore Kiss mah grits!

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    I'm getting the impression that Kathleen Kennedy is wielding pretty strong control over the Star Wars movies. This isn't the first guy to be axed due to "creative differences" with Disney/Lucasfilm. I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. I suspect Kennedy is determined to keep SW safe and predictable so as to guarantee a certain level of success. If they let all these various directors/writers follow their own vision that could be risky, so they probably keep a tight leash on them. If these directors make waves they get the boot though.
     
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  4. Joelist

    Joelist I'm showing this for a reason! Staff Member

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    Kennedy needs to keep a pretty tight rein on Star Wars. She did so with Episode VII even bringing in Lawrence Kasdan to help make sure JJ Abrams did not go way off the reservation. Which turned out to be a good thing, as even granting the complaints that the story was derivative it did keep the correct feel and tone of Star Wars and got their new cast running on a solid footing. What they can't allow is directors changing the basic feel and tone of Star Wars.

    It goes to Star Wars being about feel, tone and characters more than anything else. It's also why Abrams Trek was a disaster - Trek is not about those things although getting them wrong can sour it (Star Trek Nemesis is a testimony to this). Trek is about getting the background elements, visuals and above all the canon science correct.
     
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  5. PussyGalore

    PussyGalore Kiss mah grits!

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    I can understand Kennedy's tight rein but I admit there's a small part of me that is curious to see the direction these fired directors would have taken with the story. This is due in no small part to the fact that I found VII fairly disappointing. I didn't hate it as much as the prequels, but it still managed to fall on its face several times.
     
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  6. Joelist

    Joelist I'm showing this for a reason! Staff Member

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    To each their own. I did not find it disappointing, perhaps in part because I knew what they were aiming to do and that the intended audience was people who had a passing acquaintance with SW as much or a bit more than those closely familiar with it. They knew they needed to not do anything too flashy or outside the canon because of the big time fans but also needed to get a new cast launched and open it up to new viewers.

    As a result, they kept the story simple and easy to follow (and perhaps derivative yes). And also they did things like the live John Williams music, the heavy emphasis on practical effects over CGI, the emphasis on making sure it "felt Star Wars" and so on. Even things like the lightsaber fighting being emotional and lacking in fancy moves. Where they succeeded was in launching successfully their new characters (Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo) all of whom have gone over well.

    Where did they miss to me? One major area was unexplained plot elements. In a two and a half hour film time should have been found for at least some exposition on exactly what the First Order is, where did it come from, why is there a Resistance, what are the Knights of Ren and so on. Some scene like having Leia addressing the Senate of the New Republic for a few minutes early in the film would have done nicely. Also, show me things like how Kylo got off of Starkiller Base and such.

    Still and all, I liked it overall and it was WAY better than the prequels, which are three of the worst movies ever made.
     
  7. Overmind One

    Overmind One GateFans Gatemaster Staff Member

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    I think I said it before, but to me the only new ORIGINAL Star Wars movie is Rogue One. I found VII forgettable.
     
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  8. PussyGalore

    PussyGalore Kiss mah grits!

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    I get where you're coming from but I think you're being a bit too generous overall. Yes, it makes sense to hit all the original chords but some things were absolutely gratuitous such as the Death Star redux...redux. :rolleye0014: It was done twice in the original trilogy. Then they decided to recycle it for episode VII. (It was also done in Rogue One, but we can overlook that as it was part of the original story.) That makes three separate times that they used the Death Star as the central focus of the story. Three. That is ridiculous and shows a shocking amount of cynicism on the part of the creators of the new series of movies.

    Finn and Rey were fine, albeit a bit rushed, but it's a movie and there are time constraints so it's expected. Poe was a bore. His instant friendship with Finn was not believable. Again, I get the need for time constraints but their camaraderie fell flat because it was so obviously spoon fed to us. And Kylo Ren came off as petulant and confusing. I get that they were saving his story for later on when Luke got re-introduced. But they could have given us more to chew on other than that he is a spoiled brat with mommy/daddy issues.

    I also agree with you about the First Order. And the CGI of Snope or Snape or whatever was laughable. I didn't get a feeling of malevolence or evil from him the way I did from Vader or the Emperor in the original trilogy. That was a glaring misstep in terms of story telling.

    None of what I suggested can be attributed to marginal, fanboi whining. There's no reason they couldn't have hit these notes and fine tuned the story without worrying that it would alienate any new and/or casual fans. They could have used a different type of weapon other than the Death Star. (How many of these damn things does the Empire have in dry dock???) And what was the point of having that chrome-plated First Order storm trooper chick in the movie at all? She did nothing other than intimidate Finn. And what's worse they didn't show her get her comeuppance in the trash compactor, they just talked about it, that's all. What the hell is that about??? So we're supposed to believe that they left her alive and tied up in a closet somewhere? What happened to her? Again, what was the point of her character at all? (And how is this not a legit complaint on my part? When they pour hundreds of millions of dollars into creating a movie there really is no excuse for these kinds of holes in the story. No excuse at all.)

    There's more of course but I'll stop for now. Suffice to say that episode 7 cost far too much to produce for it to be as flawed as it turned out to be. For that kind of money perfection should be guaranteed.
     
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  9. Joelist

    Joelist I'm showing this for a reason! Staff Member

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    What is interesting is that I know both Trekkies and Star Wars fans, and the Trek fans find VII to be humdrum and liked Rogue One more while the Star Wars crowd tend to the opposite - they like VII but find the characters in Rogue One flat.
     
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  10. Overmind One

    Overmind One GateFans Gatemaster Staff Member

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    I have to agree with that assessment, and I have been in the position of being only one of two Trekkies amongst about 15 Star Wars fans who all seemed to find the reboot movie great. Half of them said that Rogue One was "like a TV show".
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2017
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  11. Joelist

    Joelist I'm showing this for a reason! Staff Member

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    I agree and think it goes back to the basic difference between Trek and SW - one puts plot at the pinnacle and the other puts characterizations at the pinnacle.
     
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  12. Overmind One

    Overmind One GateFans Gatemaster Staff Member

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    I was frankly surprised to hear more than one of them chime in when that was suggested. Like a TV show? I didn't see it that way at all. The format was definitely feature length. Could you make it a two part TV show? Yes, but then there are those awesome production values and the cinematography. Still, Expanse gives us equally as beautiful graphics and it is a TV show.
     
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  13. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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  14. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    ep 7 was "ok"

    too many issues though

    like Finn just becoming homicidal killer on everyone he ever knew, his fellow troops, his only known 'family', with so little convincing from Poe

    and the buddy-buddy relationship between Poe and Finn, just so manufactured and forced

    now Rogue 1? that was a very good movie.

    looking forward to rebels final season as well--going to have more from Saw Gerrara, Tarkin and Krennic will at least be discussed. most likely have Vader as well

    ----------------------
    wondering if there are issues with ep 8?

    there should have been more trailers by now with a release in december

    maybe they don't want to submit themselves to so much social media pre-release nit pick and pre-critique this time?
     
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  15. Overmind One

    Overmind One GateFans Gatemaster Staff Member

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    Bumping this thread...
     
  16. Twalet Brash

    Twalet Brash GateFans Cadet

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    The original trilogy of the from the 77, 80 and 83 are the only Star Wars movies that count. The sequels were horrible, all of them, including the latest installments. Rogue One was a different movie showing another part of the original Star Wars story, which was nice.
     
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  17. Overmind One

    Overmind One GateFans Gatemaster Staff Member

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    I agree with you on the OT being the ones that count, but I also did not hate the prequels as much as true Star Wars fans hate them. I find them watchable, at least. :) I did not really like The Force Awakens or this last film The Last Jedi but Rogue One was fresh and new and was 100% Star Wars in my opinion.
     
  18. Twalet Brash

    Twalet Brash GateFans Cadet

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    I was appalled by the way they treated Luke Skywalker's character in The Last Joke. Skywalker, being the most powerful and last of his kind, should have played a more prominent role in this movie and the next. The obsession to pass the baton, as it were, is destroying Lucas's creation and Lucas doesn't give a rat's ass because he's cashed in his billions and is probably under an iron clad agreement to not negatively criticize anything Disney does with his franchise. I am half expecting a musical number in the next star wars installment in the great Disney tradition.
     
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  19. Overmind One

    Overmind One GateFans Gatemaster Staff Member

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    :shep_lol::SmileyLaughingTears::rotflmao::smiley-laughing024:

    Yep, I think even Mark Hamill was pissed off about it. They just ruined him. The way he was acting in his little hermit house reminded me of Yoda before he revealed he was a Jedi master to Luke. Like he did too much space meth and was burned out. And yeah. Lucas has probably not even seen The Force Awakens yet. :). "The Last Joke" :icon_clap:
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  20. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    tell me then..who was Luke in personality or anything? We got very little of who he truly was as a person in the OT

    other then the 'aw shucks' farmboy that is....

    it is not up to any of us to write the story of luke as an old man. we just have to take the story as it is created by those in charge of producing it

    doesn't mean that anyone has to like it though
    ---------------------

    outside of SW's,his character in LAST JEDI is a bit like that of Kirk's in GENERATIONS. He didn't want to leave his 'paradise' and only reluctantly helped Picard after he prodded him so much

    hero's get old and don't stay 19 forever
     
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