Star Trek: Discovery versus The Orville - That Inevitable Comparison.

[Overmind One]

This is going to be the thread where we put the frequent "crossover" threads which compare the Orville and Star Trek: Discovery (STD). Flag those threads you think should be moved here, and in the meantime I will move a few.

These guys can see things pretty clearly (NSFW: Language)

 

[Overmind One]

This show is something you can relate to which is what makes it great.
Are you going to give episode 5 of Discovery a go? I have thrown in the towel for it. If they are going to jump in each episode, it's not a show for me.

2.5 episodes. Maximum dose of Star Trek Discovery episodes. I know I really hate it because it is in the same place in the High Seas where I get The Orville to download, and I have no interest in downloading it. I mean, I even downloaded Tank Girl once. Im not sure if I would even watch Discovery if paid. I am uninterested in seeing the nipple clamp monster episode or spore drive or the tilted angle bridge shots which make it seem like the ship is always sinking. Bleh, why would I want to get into that show?

 

[YJ02]

something interesting:

 

[Overmind One]

The funny thing is that in the absence of Discovery calling itself Star Trek, one would not really compare these two shows because they are so disparate.

 

[heisenberg]

The funny thing is that in the absence of Discovery calling itself Star Trek, one would not really compare these two shows because they are so disparate.

View attachment 33573

There is nothing to compare. The jackasses wanted to create a Games of Thrones competitor, so they basically made a generic Space opera series and slapped the Star Trek Logo onto it. Given how much rich history Star Trek has created and with the wrapping up of the Star Trek movies, it was pretty fresh in people's mind, they gave us this garbage. People were desperate for Star Trek series so they gave us one. That is why you see people 'enjoying' this garbage. I will keep posting more stuff about the Orville than discovery.

Star Trek discovery is DUMB!

 

[YJ02]

just someone tell me me discovery is done-dead and buried

i'll watch it then to get a better appreciation for your pain and to commiserate with everyone on a level basis

then, tell me when the Orville is done for the season, so that i can watch it, binge style, and enjoy it

hows that for comparison?

 

[Overmind One]

There is nothing to compare. The jackasses wanted to create a Games of Thrones competitor, so they basically made a generic Space opera series and slapped the Star Trek Logo onto it. Given how much rich history Star Trek has created and with the wrapping up of the Star Trek movies, it was pretty fresh in people's mind, they gave us this garbage. People were desperate for Star Trek series so they gave us one. That is why you see people 'enjoying' this garbage. I will keep posting more stuff about the Orville than discovery.

Star Trek discovery is DUMB!

Frankly, I am not seeing that. There are little handfuls of people who are liking it, but the show overall I think is a huge fail. The numbers which were published when it aired on regular CBS did not indicate anything super-successful. The Walking Dead started stronger. And The Orville was within 2mil in viewership and did BETTER in the demos. If anything those numbers have shrunk and I am not hearing anything more about CBS All Access membership. Those numbers will have to be published in the Prospectus eventually, so we will get them. But I am not seeing where this show is any sort of success. I am immune to spin.

 

[PussyGalore]

Frankly, I am not seeing that. There are little handfuls of people who are liking it, but the show overall I think is a huge fail. The numbers which were published when it aired on regular CBS did not indicate anything super-successful. The Walking Dead started stronger. And The Orville was within 2mil in viewership and did BETTER in the demos. If anything those numbers have shrunk and I am not hearing anything more about CBS All Access membership. Those numbers will have to be published in the Prospectus eventually, so we will get them. But I am not seeing where this show is any sort of success. I am immune to spin.

Everything I hear about each successive episode of Discovery seems to take it further and further away from the Trek universe. How can they expect that to be a successful formula? That's not how keeping a loyal fan base works.

 

[Overmind One]

Everything I hear about each successive episode of Discovery seems to take it further and further away from the Trek universe. How can they expect that to be a successful formula? That's not how keeping a loyal fan base works.

Why is it so hard for some people to identify spin? Just because one article somewhere talks about how somebody is in actual physical withdrawal because Discovery takes a week between episodes, or reading glowing reviews about how it's so much better than all the other Star Trek, I'm not buying it. The VAST majority of fan sites and comment sections which are not subject to censorship by shill sites are dragging this thing like a garbage bag going to the recycle bin. The fact that CBS is not publishing any numbers about All Access membership increases, the lack of buzz in the FAN spheres, all point to massive fail.

But The Orville is getting all the fan spin in the Trek fan spheres. Most are hailing The Orville as "The New Star Trek".

 

[PussyGalore]

Why is it so hard for some people to identify spin? Just because one article somewhere talks about how somebody is in actual physical withdrawal because Discovery takes a week between episodes, or reading glowing reviews about how it's so much better than all the other Star Trek, I'm not buying it. The VAST majority of fan sites and comment sections which are not subject to censorship by shill sites are dragging this thing like a garbage bag going to the recycle bin. The fact that CBS is not publishing any numbers about All Access membership increases, the lack of buzz in the FAN spheres, all point to massive fail.

But The Orville is getting all the fan spin in the Trek fan spheres. Most are hailing The Orville as "The New Star Trek".

I hate to pull out this old saw but this whole thing reminds me of SGU. Back then a large portion of Stargate fans hated the show. We saw through the spin immediately. But casual fans saw through the sham on a much more basic level. I remember talking to one guy who had it on his DVR. I asked him how he liked it and he said he hadn't watched all the episodes because he found it really boring and not like the other Stargate shows. He wasn't nasty about it. He just didn't care for it. He said he would maybe get around to watching more of it some day, but like most people he just gave up.

I think aside from the hard core Trek fans who don't like Discovery there is a sizable casual fan market that is getting turned off to it too. All those people who got sucked into signing up for CBS All Access are now figuring out that the service has nothing else to offer other than reruns of shows from the free CBS channel. Even at $5.99 a month what's the point? There isn't that big of a demand to pay to watch reruns of Criminal Minds when you can catch that shit for free on any number of over-the-air channels. (Criminal Minds is a horrible show btw. Truly God awful.)

 

[Overmind One]

I hate to pull out this old saw but this whole thing reminds me of SGU. Back then a large portion of Stargate fans hated the show. We saw through the spin immediately. But casual fans saw through the sham on a much more basic level. I remember talking to one guy who had it on his DVR. I asked him how he liked it and he said he hadn't watched all the episodes because he found it really boring and not like the other Stargate shows. He wasn't nasty about it. He just didn't care for it. He said he would maybe get around to watching more of it some day, but like most people he just gave up.

SGU and also Defiance. They spun this thing up the same way, and they get to hide behind the paywall and not give up the numbers. With Defiance and SGU, we could see the fail through the spin because of the ratings drops. This thing gets to hide for a while.

 

[PussyGalore]

SGU and also Defiance. They spun this thing up the same way, and they get to hide behind the paywall and not give up the numbers. With Defiance and SGU, we could see the fail through the spin because of the ratings drops. This thing gets to hide for a while.

Do you think they will try to salvage things in season 2 or will they double-down on their ridiculous vision? I tend to think arrogance will keep the writers believing that people just need to see more of where they're going with this story and then they will fall in love with it. That's kind of how it played out with SGU. There was some talk about changes being made in season 2 but in actuality nothing much changed. I suspect that's how it's going to play out with Discovery. I certainly don't see them doing a major overhaul of the story because they would have to jettison every single character and story line.

 

[Overmind One]

Do you think they will try to salvage things in season 2 or will they double-down on their ridiculous vision? I tend to think arrogance will keep the writers believing that people just need to see more of where they're going with this story and then they will fall in love with it. That's kind of how it played out with SGU. There was some talk about changes being made in season 2 but in actuality nothing much changed. I suspect that's how it's going to play out with Discovery. I certainly don't see them doing a major overhaul of the story because they would have to jettison every single character and story line.

This "season" which is just a partial release of the total official "Season One" episodes may just be spun into being Season One, and then they can say that the second run was "approved" for Season Two, even though it isn't. Already, the real Season Two which would be paid for with new money (not necessarily Netflix) is by no means guaranteed, and the article I posted said that even if there was a Second Season, we would not get it till 2019.

My call? No Season Two.

I'm not watching the show, so I can't comment on the episodes or whatever direction they are swerving at the moment. If only this were in a position where we would rate it and predict it. I miss the Crystal Ball awards! I'm liking the Discovery Fan Fiction comments though....might be a fun thread.

 

[heisenberg]

Frankly, I am not seeing that. There are little handfuls of people who are liking it, but the show overall I think is a huge fail. The numbers which were published when it aired on regular CBS did not indicate anything super-successful. The Walking Dead started stronger. And The Orville was within 2mil in viewership and did BETTER in the demos. If anything those numbers have shrunk and I am not hearing anything more about CBS All Access membership. Those numbers will have to be published in the Prospectus eventually, so we will get them. But I am not seeing where this show is any sort of success. I am immune to spin.

Facebook, reddit and a lot of the comments still have people who like discovery.

 

[Overmind One]

Facebook, reddit and a lot of the comments still have people who like discovery.

Exactly. Facebook, reddit (also Twitter, TVguide, Trek Core, TV.com) all the EASILY shilled standard social media outlets where spin lives. But what about the real world? You know, where nobody can be bought and where everyone is free of ads and not mixed in with stories about the Kardashians, Jennifer Lawrence and Apple product reviews?

How much cred do you put in those comments? That is the question. The studios throw the shill money where they expect people to be. It's logical, but not very effective. The vast majority of the fandom hates the show. Facebook, reddit and the others will delete negative reviews and comments and block the commenters. Exactly like they did for SGU and Defiance. Look where those shows are now.

Take a look at this:

http://variety.com/2017/digital/news/star-trek-discovery-cbs-subscription-revenue-1202579644/

“We expect to see an elevated level of daily revenue for the next week following the prior week’s elevated level of downloads,” the company said in its report.

However, this doesn’t mean that CBS is raking in Netflix-style money with the show just yet. App Annie estimated that the combined iOS and Android revenue for the CBS app was “well over $60,000 in the US” on October 1. This number doesn’t include any sign-ups that might have happened on CBS’ website or through connected devices.

CBS itself hasn’t released any concrete numbers on the revenue impact of “Star Trek: Discovery.” The broadcaster did share Tuesday that subscriber growth has been up more than 200 percent year-over-year since the debut of the show.

Wow. $60,000.00! At 8 MILLION PER EPISODE, they are well on their way, no? You have seen Discovery. You know it's shit. I have seen it too. I know it's shit. That is why when I read a comment with somebody saying how it's better than the other Star Treks and it is so well written and Michael is such an awesome, interesting character, I am nonplussed. I know it's spin and shilled out. Reading glowing comments when I know from personal viewing that it's shit makes me question the source, not my opinion.

 

[Overmind One]

Why isn't CBS bragging about it's vast expansion of new All Access memberships? It's because it ain't happenin'. If it was, you can bet Lorca's tribble that they would be bragging about it, and very loudly. But....nothing.

 

[Joelist]

I think I actually ran the numbers on this in another thread...

http://www.gatefans.net/gforums/threads/star-trek-discovery-sucks.28600/page-12

Basically in order to even cover most of STDs cost CBS needs around 1.4 MILLION new subscribers not 60,000...

 

[Overmind One]

I think I actually ran the numbers on this in another thread...

http://www.gatefans.net/gforums/threads/star-trek-discovery-sucks.28600/page-12

Basically in order to even cover most of STDs cost CBS needs around 1.4 MILLION new subscribers not 60,000...

Yes, you did indeed. We are on the same page. CBS can see what we see, but unfortunately because they are now behind a paywall (and a data shield because no ratings), they do not have to be forthcoming. Coming up on their 5th episode, they must already see the dismal truth.

 

[PussyGalore]

I think I actually ran the numbers on this in another thread...

http://www.gatefans.net/gforums/threads/star-trek-discovery-sucks.28600/page-12

Basically in order to even cover most of STDs cost CBS needs around 1.4 MILLION new subscribers not 60,000...

Good point to make. Let me add from a simplistic "retail" perspective they would need to double it to 3 million new subscribers to be considered a success. I don't see that happening though, certainly not in a timely fashion.

 

[PussyGalore]

Yes, you did indeed. We are on the same page. CBS can see what we see, but unfortunately because they are now behind a paywall (and a data shield because no ratings), they do not have to be forthcoming. Coming up on their 5th episode, they must already see the dismal truth.

I'm still trying to figure out what CBS All Access offers that's worth anything. Other than their failed attempt at an original show the rest is either football, that you can already see on local channels, or reruns of regular CBS shows, many of which are already airing on free local channels too. So where is the value there? I keep thinking I'm missing something but for the life of me I can't figure it out.