really "dumb" bombs

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
i wonder how the ballistics on the targeting is computed?

be kind of defeating the purpose of the 'cheapness' (extremely relative as it is) if they installed a guidance system

wouldn't want to be under them though

http://www.businessinsider.com/air-...c-weapon-hit-with-nuclear-weapon-force-2017-9

I was going to ignore this topic, because I really have negative feelings about weapons of war and any continued weapons research and development (especially space based weapons). But the end of that article just incensed me:

A core takeaway from the concept of weapons like Project Thor's is that hypersonic weapons pack a significant punch and may be the future of global warfare.

Why is there a future for global warfare? Who is it that is wanting a future for global warfare? I have a hard time believing that it is any normal, rational thinking people or group of people. I do not understand it at all.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
I was going to ignore this topic, because I really have negative feelings about weapons of war and any continued weapons research and development (especially space based weapons). But the end of that article just incensed me:



Why is there a future for global warfare? Who is it that is wanting a future for global warfare? I have a hard time believing that it is any normal, rational thinking people or group of people. I do not understand it at all.

yup :(

while we and hopefully others (Japan,Europe?) need to maintain a basic (like at current level) capability for true defense--NOT power projection!- since it is foolish to believe that a North Korean, Russia, China, Iran, etc, will simply pack up and put away their strength if we put away ours. not going to happen. they will do more of what they have been doing in the past few years thinking they sense american weakness.

so yeah, let russia and iran deal with the mid east, but we need to be ready to defend our nation if needed--that is OUR nation

BUT, this continued expenditure of money and research time and funds on developing stuff is over the top indeed


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my only 'interest' in this thing is from a curiosity question; how do they guide these things? that is, how can they be sure they can achieve any level of accuracy from dropping them from orbit?

and, if these could be "aimed' to any level of accuracy, is there any kind of future for them in other applications?

like say dropping a perimeter of metal on mars or the moon for establishing the foundations of a settlement, etc

like dropping piles (used in construction) from space; ram them into the ground-hopefully vertically level!-and then follow on building any structure on them--a barrier from martian sand storms, and foundation for a landing pad, etc
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
The problem is that entire corporations have been built on war and the need to wage it. The weapons are "products" for them to sell, and like any other retail company like automakers, they need a market to sell their goods, and a reason for their clients to buy them. In this case, there needs to be wars going on, or at least a threatening enemy to "prepare" for. I hate it. Funny how the 1940s era Jeeps are still tooling around most every military base in America, driven daily (as you know). This also goes for the Deuces and 5ton. All from 1945! Motor pools across the world work in these vehicles every day. Why develop a new Jeep replacement when literally millions of them still exist in good running condition? Old Sea Stallions, C130s, 105 and 155 hoitzers...they are fine.

New weapons systems want to get over a billion for a single aircraft? an $800,000 troop carrier? WTF???? Now, space based weapons to rain death upon us?
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
Funny how the 1940s era Jeeps are still tooling around most every military base in America, driven daily (as you know). This also goes for the Deuces and 5ton. All from 1945!

NO ONE uses that stuff anymore!

the last M151 jeep i saw in service was with a reserve unit in desert shield and they turned then in over there for hmmwv's

same with deuces and other wheel vehicles

all have been replaced with 5 tons and now with the newer oshkosh family of vehicles

dude--timewarp much?! :)

even hmmwv's--(really no reason why, they can be upgraded) are finding their way to obsolescence giving way to things like MRAPS, COUGARS, FOX's and some other stuff i have never heard of

on the plus side-these vehicles have actual protection--instead of the hmmwv's vinyl doors and roof!

they have the 'boat hull' design undercarriage copied from israeli and south african vehicles

much more survivable to ied's and mines as well as direct and indirect fire

BUT!!!

YEAH- the older stuff--5tons, hmmwv's could ALL be upgraded and uparmored if they really wanted to do it. but most of that stuff has been given to police depts all across america by now
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
NO ONE uses that stuff anymore!

the last M151 jeep i saw in service was with a reserve unit in desert shield and they turned then in over there for hmmwv's

same with deuces and other wheel vehicles

all have been replaced with 5 tons and now with the newer oshkosh family of vehicles

dude--timewarp much?! :)

Hey, it's been almost 30 years since I served! But still, in 1980, we were still using 1940s era equipment on the daily. Jeeps, deuces, 5tons. A 1940 Jeep in 1980 is still 40 years. I doubt any of the new vehicles last more than 10.

even hmmwv's--(really no reason why, they can be upgraded) are finding their way to obsolescence giving way to things like MRAPS, COUGARS, FOX's and some other stuff i have never heard of

on the plus side-these vehicles have actual protection--instead of the hmmwv's vinyl doors and roof!

they have the 'boat hull' design undercarriage copied from israeli and south african vehicles

much more survivable to ied's and mines as well as direct and indirect fire

BUT!!!

YEAH- the older stuff--5tons, hmmwv's could ALL be upgraded and uparmored if they really wanted to do it. but most of that stuff has been given to police depts all across america by now

I am waiting for the politics to arise which are extremely anti-war/anti-Pentagon/anti-foreign military operations. If we could simply have an actual DEFENSE force instead of an AGGRESSIVELY invasive bully military that goes around the world bullying weaker nations and stealing their lunch money. We do not ever need to defend againt an enemy. We are right now busy MAKING enemies which is why they attack us.

We are the ONLY nation which does this. Kim Jong Un's motivation to nuclear arm is defensive. It is being developed expressly because the United States would bully the nation if he did not. We are in Afghanistan because our heroin/opioids are dependent on Afghan poppies. More than one war has been fought over opioids in the region over the decades. If only Africa, South America and Central America were nuclear armed and non-aligned with the US.

BTW...

This sort of topic belongs over at FlameHell. I know, I have been ignoring that place, but I really do not want to go political here at GateFans again.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
his sort of topic belongs over at FlameHell. I know, I have been ignoring that place, but I really do not want to go political here at GateFans again.

well, i was just talking about "dumb "steel i beams falling from outer space... :)


and just one last note--yes to all, except north korea

never forget every other nation on earth is a government WITH A military

north korea IS A MILITARY with a governmental hobby-they are no longer even communist by any stretch

they have always been offensive, from the start

america's military presence has dwindled drastically in the south since about 1991 on. the north's arming up and nuke development has increased-even started AFTER the american drawdown began by about 3 yrs or so.

you could go back to 1945, but the partition of korea by the soviets and the us was a mutually agreed upon and drafted agreement made by both aliied nation as to who would accept the surrender of japanese forces. it was done for expediency in disarming japanese forces still in place and still armed (similar agreement in vietnam btw)

now i'll just stick to the "dumb" i-beams from space :anim_59:
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
well, i was just talking about "dumb "steel i beams falling from outer space... :)


and just one last note--yes to all, except north korea

never forget every other nation on earth is a government WITH A military

north korea IS A MILITARY with a governmental hobby-they are no longer even communist by any stretch

they have always been offensive, from the start

Explain please? As far as I know, they do not float ships or fly planes more than 1000 miles from their nation and pick fights and land troops in foreign lands because their target has no defenses. That is what the US does. Not even the other western nations behave like we do.

america's military presence has dwindled drastically in the south since about 1991 on. the north's arming up and nuke development has increased-even started AFTER the american drawdown began by about 3 yrs or so.

The term "dwindle" and the US Military being uttered in the same sentence is rather a stretch! We are still doing our thing in the Middle East.

you could go back to 1945, but the partition of korea by the soviets and the us was a mutually agreed upon and drafted agreement made by both aliied nation as to who would accept the surrender of japanese forces. it was done for expediency in disarming japanese forces still in place and still armed (similar agreement in vietnam btw)

now i'll just stick to the "dumb" i-beams from space :anim_59:

It's only when you look at Vietnam, the Middle East and the Koreas on the map that you realize that we are an aggressive, bully nation. I am a patriot, but I am not going to feed a delusion because it seems politically correct. We are a bully nation. Simple as that.
 

YJ02

Well Known GateFan
ok,, if you must :)

Korea is not the 'normal' pattern of american imperial "progress"

and, dont make the mistake as the liberals do ,that if the Kim's and the North were jsut left alone, they would be a peaceful nation!! that is such utter Polyannish dreaming there!

the Kim dynasty's sole prerogative since the end of open hostility in 53, has been to harass and usurp South Korean authority. in the 60's they openly attacked American and ROK army patrols in the DMZ routinely. They attacked the South's Korean Presidential residence (the Blue House) in Seoul in an attempt to capture or kill the south's president.

they bombed passenger jets in the 80's. the routinely have and still do infiltrate spec ops teams into the south to spy and map attack routes/defenses

they have and still do assist foreign nations in suppressing democratic movements' Khaddafi used North Korean army troops to help defeat Libyan rebels in the 80's; Assad in Syria is using them now to fight Syrian rebels--not ISIS.

they have no interest in peace-even with russian and chinese assistance for civilian projects and endeavors, they resist and turn nearly every form of aid from anyplace to military use.
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we were "assigned"-among the other allied victors of ww2, the mission of accepting the surrender of japanese forces in korea south of the 38th parallel (the same for french forces in vietnam--acccept japanese surrender south of the 17th parallel with Nationalist Chinese forces (the Chiang Kai Shek bunch) accepting surrender north of the 17th--a mission inherited by the communist chinese a few yrs later) with the Soviets accepting north of the 38th

both the Soviets and Americans/allies decided it was necessary to remain in their respective portions of korea to help administer the rebuild and start up of the county after being under japanese rule since 1910 and agred to nationwide elections that never truly happened

in '47 ,most american combat forces left Korea with only a very small, lightly armed force of trainers left to train the new south Korean constabulary.

occupation troops remained in japan though they were also not prepared/equipped for combat (when ordered to deploy from japan to korea, many individual and crew served weapons were unserviceable having been rusted shut or so deeply packed in cosmoline for storage that it took hours to get it ungreased)

the UN asked america and any other member nations to go to the south in 1950 to beat back the north's invasion

the russians and Chinese never intended to honor the agreement they signed with the other ww2 allies over korea, they had started building an offensive military from nearly day one. they built it out of the former Soviet and Chi Com ethnic Korean units that had fought in Manchuria against the japanese and in europe against germany. Kim Il Sung was a lower ranking soviet officer whose russian superior commisars thought showed socialist promise

back then-this was considered expansionist aggression by not just Kim's north but also by the chinese and soviets. intercontinental capability was not a prerequisite considered before a nation was considered a threat

america and the west wanted to challenge the communists, but did not want to risk another war that involved killing white ppl in europe so they made their stand in asia where "lesser" yellow ppl would die.

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as to the 'dwindling' of us forces in korea, well ,actually, it had started in the 70's when Pres Carter ordered the Army's 7th Inf Div to withdraw from korea along with its supporting units

in the late 80's- tactical nukes were withdrawn

in 1991, the US army gave up all of it's DMZ patrol missions and firebases to the ROK Army, the 2ID's 3rd bde was also diminished but not removed.

in the later 90's, the 3rd bde was removed

in 2004, the 2nd bde was redeployed from korea to iraq then went to ft hood afterwards then ft lewis

now, most of what remains in korea from the us army of any importance is a MLRS artillery BDE, 2 PATRIOT air defense missile bde's, an attack helo bde and then some infantry and armor units to serve as force protection for these assets.

the us maintains only a very small offensive capability in korea in the form of the mlrs and attack avn bde's

additionally, all forces,except the mlrs unit and their protection, have been withdrawn south of Seoul to a brand new base that is even south of Osan air base! no more "i was on/near the DMZ" for us soldiers unless they are part of the mainly ceremonial unit at Panmunjom.

that is massive force reduction. not just in the last 20 yrs but in the last 45 as well

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as to the rest of the world and our "adventures", yeah, you should already know i agree with you :)
 
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