Hannibal...the series. WHY?

[Bluce Ree]

#1. The serial killer angle is not window dressing, it is the premise of the show!
#2. The serial killer angle is not window dressing, it is the premise of the show!

His urge is a metaphor from which the story makes social commentary. How much of the show did you watch?

#3. Why do you find the examination of psychopathology entertaining?

I find the story compelling and the character's struggle to find his humanity intriguing.

#4. The serial killer angle is not window dressing, it is the premise of the show!

#5. The amount of gore actually shown within the show is irrelevant. The show is advertised as gory and bolsters the premise of a serial killer being the lead character.

Yeah, it is relevant. It's a good indicator that the audience will remain focused on the story and not the acts of killing. A bad story would be disguised with lots of explosions and gore.

# 6. The serial killer angle is not window dressing, it is the premise of the show! The show is literally about a psychopath. This is not window dressing. You wish to define it as such because you want to defend this show...the one about a psychopath...which you like.

You do realize that psychopath does not mean one is automatically a sick, twisted killer. Surgeons are psychopaths. They need to be to do the nasty shit they do to humans in surgery. Certain successful CEOs are psychopaths. It's a pretty big list, actually. It doesn't mean they're all predisposed to killing.

Quite simply, me thinks the lady doth protest too much in this regard.

So, now I'm a serial killer because I like the show?

*And yes, OM1 is right in that the biker angle is not window dressing in SOA. The premise of the show is about biker gangs and the people they affect in their periphery with their biker lifestyle. That is the premise of the show. It would only be window dressing if the entire cast of characters worked in an office building and wore three-piece suits but were members of a poser Harley "biker gang" that met for long rides on sunny weekends that culminated in a stop for ice cream at the local Dairy Queen.

SGU's science fiction angle was window dressing. It was a melodrama set in a sci-fi backdrop.

Just because something is the premise of a show does not mean it is also not window dressing. The show attracts viewers based on the premise yet the story may expand out of the premise.

 

[Bluce Ree]

Pilot, episode 5 and episode 13. So, perhaps you could suggest a set of other episodes?

Dude, either watch an entire season or two or quit. Dexter is serial, as is Breaking Bad and SOA. You can't mish-mash episodes and get the gist of what it's like.

 

[Bluce Ree]

I watched three episodes. This is what I saw:

*sigh*

I give up. Yes, you watched 3 randomly placed episodes. You're now the most qualified critic to prejudge... uh ... comment on this show.

I didnt like it. Why does not liking low class scum have to be "asinine"?

Your analogies and comparisons are asinine, not your taste. I don't know if you're deliberately misunderstanding posts or simply suffering ADD but I did clearly state what I thought was asinine.

 

[Overmind One]

Dude, either watch an entire season or two or quit. Dexter is serial, as is Breaking Bad and SOA. You can't mish-mash episodes and get the gist of what it's like.

I dont get the logic here. The characters are the same in the pilot as they are in the last season to the end of the show, right? If so, how will watching a whole season make a difference? I will do as you say...I will watch a season. I watched much more of Dexter than SoA, and I still feel the same way about it now as I did from watching the first few episodes in season 1. Hannibal, however, will not get a single watch from me because I already know who he is. Nobody knew Dexter or the characters in SoA, but we know who Hannibal is.

 

[Overmind One]

Dude, either watch an entire season or two or quit. Dexter is serial, as is Breaking Bad and SOA. You can't mish-mash episodes and get the gist of what it's like.

The gist of the show? Please tell me if these pictures do not represent the gist of the show:

 

[Bluce Ree]

I dont get the logic here. The characters are the same in the pilot as they are in the last season to the end of the show, right?

Hey! You're right. Why bother watching any show, then? Just watch the pilot, make up your mind and stop. Think of what you could have been doing if you spared yourself 10 years of SG-1 or 5 years of SGA. Shit, you could have figured all that out in just one or two random episodes.

When I started watching SG-1, i thought it stunk. It sucked. I watched a few more episodes and the show grew on me. I kept an open mind and actually watched the show straight through and got hooked.

Breaking Bad was the same, as was SOA. I thought both shows were bleh when i started watching but I kept watching because of all the accolades they received. I ended up loving both shows. Mind you, I caught up to these shows on Netflix years into the series, as did my wife, and she also loves them, including Dexter.

Walking Dead went the other way. I loved the first season. I stuck through S2 and regret the show ever since.

I can name several other shows I love after watching them without much regard for the show or the premise. It's about keeping an open mind.

 

[Bluce Ree]

The gist of the show? Please tell me if these pictures do not represent the gist of the show:

View attachment 29491

View attachment 29492

View attachment 29494

View attachment 29493

That last pic was a promo demonstrating conflict within the ranks. It's not from an episode.

You've just demonstrated the most blatant example of judging a book by its cover. What do stills have to do with the show's story?

 

[Overmind One]

That last pic was a promo demonstrating conflict within the ranks. It's not from an episode.

You've just demonstrated the most blatant example of judging a book by its cover. What do stills have to do with the show's story?

They tell me what segment of society the show is about. I see bikes, prison, criminals, biker women, tattoos...I dont like the package. There is no story about the package I would be interested in. But I will watch a whole season before commenting on Sons of Anarchy. Dexter, however I can speak on. I have watched about 10 episodes of that show. There were funny moments from his sister, but as soon as we would get to one of his murders, I was reminded that this was a show about a psychopath. One who smiles. . Its not window dressing as you said, its the premise of the show...like Ape said.

TBH, I think Dexter should never have been made as a show about a serial killer. They could have made him a vigilante and done the same show.

 

[Bluce Ree]

They tell me what segment of society the show is about. I see bikes, prison, criminals, biker women, tattoos...I dont like the package. There is no story about the package I would be interested in. But I will watch a whole season before commenting on Sons of Anarchy. Dexter, however I can speak on. I have watched about 10 episodes of that show. There were funny moments from his sister, but as soon as we would get to one of his murders, I was reminded that this was a show about a psychopath. One who smiles. . Its not window dressing as you said, its the premise of the show...like Ape said.

TBH, I think Dexter should never have been made as a show about a serial killer. They could have made him a vigilante and done the same show.

So, now you've watched 10 episodes of Dexter. That was mighty fast. You did all that between this post and the few posts above where you said 3 episodes? Come on, dude. Just drop it.

Repeat after me:

"I don't like the premise of this show so I won't watch it."

You can leave it at that. There's nothing wrong with that and no need to invent reasons why you dislike the show or even pretend you watched any significant portion of it. You don't like the cover therefore you will not watch it and that's perfectly fine.

 

[Overmind One]

Hey! You're right. Why bother watching any show, then? Just watch the pilot, make up your mind and stop. Think of what you could have been doing if you spared yourself 10 years of SG-1 or 5 years of SGA. Shit, you could have figured all that out in just one or two random episodes.

But I liked the pilot of SG-1 and LOVED the pilot of SGA. .

When I started watching SG-1, i thought it stunk. It sucked. I watched a few more episodes and the show grew on me. I kept an open mind and actually watched the show straight through and got hooked.

I did not like the new Jack, and I did not like the changed tone of the tv show, but I started liking it very quickly because of the chemistry between the characters played against the adventures through the gate.

Breaking Bad was the same, as was SOA. I thought both shows were bleh when i started watching but I kept watching because of all the accolades they received. I ended up loving both shows. Mind you, I caught up to these shows on Netflix years into the series, as did my wife, and she also loves them, including Dexter.

Okay, I can respect that. You have room in your heart for a more "varied" palette than I have.

Walking Dead went the other way. I loved the first season. I stuck through S2 and regret the show ever since.

Same here...I even bought episodes of the game and played them.

I can name several other shows I love after watching them without much regard for the show or the premise. It's about keeping an open mind.

See...that is something that is higher up on my list than good writing or attractive, talented characters. For instance, I also hate Game of Thrones . The premise of a show is it's body...it's form. To me, that is VERY important.

Premise 1 - The story of a high class proctologist and his double amputee Vietnam Vet patients. A different patient each week. Produced by Joss Whedon, Stephen Speilburg, Michael bay, JJ Abrams, Ridley Scott and paid for by Apple computer AND Microsoft.

Premise 2 - The first manned space station built by earth which could support a population of 100,000 is pulled out of orbit by a passing comet and hurled on a trajectory leaving the solar system. How do we get them home? Can we save the station? Produced by Joey McNobody.

I dont think I want to even see the pilot for the first show. Even if it has the best writing team, the highest production values and great music.
--- merged: Feb 28, 2014 at 9:15 AM ---

So, now you've watched 10 episodes of Dexter. That was mighty fast. You did all that between this post and the few posts above where you said 3 episodes? Come on, dude. Just drop it.

Repeat after me:

"I don't like the premise of this show so I won't watch it."

You can leave it at that. There's nothing wrong with that and no need to invent reasons why you dislike the show or even pretend you watched any significant portion of it. You don't like the cover therefore you will not watch it and that's perfectly fine.

Read it again. I watched 3 episodes of SoA and 10 of Dexter.

And I dont have to invent reasons why criminals are to be disliked...reviled even.

 

[Bluce Ree]

See...that is something that is higher up on my list than good writing or attractive, talented characters. For instance, I also hate Game of Thrones . The premise of a show is it's body...it's form. To me, that is VERY important.

I bet you haven't watched a single complete episode or, at most, 1 or 2 random ones.

Premise 1 - The story of a high class proctologist and his double amputee Vietnam Vet patients. A different patient each week. Produced by Joss Whedon, Stephen Speilburg, Michael bay, JJ Abrams, Ridley Scott and paid for by Apple computer AND Microsoft.

Premise 2 - The first manned space station built by earth which could support a population of 100,000 is pulled out of orbit by a passing comet and hurled on a trajectory leaving the solar system. How do we get them home? Can we save the station? Produced by Joey McNobody.

I dont think I want to even see the pilot for the first show. Even if it has the best writing team, the highest production values and great music.
--- merged: Feb 28, 2014 at 9:15 AM ---

Look. Big names don't influence me into watching crap, ever. There are several intelligent comedies I couldn't get into that are actually quite good shows. I've been trying to get into Arrested Development for ages and just can't seem to get through an entire season but I have tried.

Read it again. I watched 3 episodes of SoA and 10 of Dexter.

Go further back. You watched the pilot then you watched 2 episodes. When did you watch the other 8? Which 8? Were they scattered? If so, forget it. You'll never follow the story.

And I dont have to invent reasons why criminals are to be disliked...reviled even.

Yet, here you are, thread after thread, jumping at every chance to post critique on a show you have neither watched nor followed as well as yell "me too!" after every negative post about it.

 

[Overmind One]

I bet you haven't watched a single complete episode or, at most, 1 or 2 random ones.

I watched the first two episodes. That was all I needed. Not into medieval stuff...I dont want to see kings and queens and slaves and swords and beheadings. Only if there are wizards, elves and orcs involved.

Look. Big names don't influence me into watching crap, ever. There are several intelligent comedies I couldn't get into that are actually quite good shows. I've been trying to get into Arrested Development for ages and just can't seem to get through an entire season but I have tried.

I couldnt get into that one either.

Go further back. You watched the pilot then you watched 2 episodes. When did you watch the other 8? Which 8? Were they scattered? If so, forget it. You'll never follow the story.

I watched the pilot of Sons of Anarchy, then episode 5, then episode 13 (all in season 1). Dexter I watched episodes 1, 2, 3, and 9 in season 1. Episode 6 in season 2, episodes 1, 9 11 and 12 in season 7. Nothing in season 8.

Yet, here you are, thread after thread, jumping at every chance to post critique on a show you have neither watched nor followed as well as yell "me too!" after every negative post about it.

In this particular case. I started this thread. It was never meant to praise the creation of the Hannibal show, nor is it for those who are watching it. It is a thread asking WHY it was created in the first place. The resulting branches of the topic went into other shows like Dexter and SoA. The central discussion is actually questioning the depictions of lifestyles and behaviors, and whether or not they are entertainment or perversions of storytelling...or perhaps something in between. Why are there new shows being made which have criminals, serial killers or other low lifes as their protagonists?

I have no doubt that Hannibal will have a group of talented writers and producers and support from it's production team. But the premise will still be about Hannibal Lechter...he is the central character of the show, and for me that means I wont be interested no matter how they serve it up.

 

[shavedape]

That sounds like a show about consensual sex. Can you truly rape a rapist?

Sigh...

Come on dude, you're better than that. I used your exact argument to prove how ridiculous it was. You replied with something nonsensical and almost childish in its reasoning. Of course rapists can be raped. There was nothing consensual about the premise I laid out. Again, it's your argument that I'm using here.

 

[Bluce Ree]

I watched the pilot of Sons of Anarchy, then episode 5, then episode 13 (all in season 1). Dexter I watched episodes 1, 2, 3, and 9 in season 1. Episode 6 in season 2, episodes 1, 9 11 and 12 in season 7. Nothing in season 8.

That's a pretty specific list of eps, also completely disconnected and random. It's safe to say you never really watches the show.

In this particular case. I started this thread. It was never meant to praise the creation of the Hannibal show, nor is it for those who are watching it. It is a thread asking WHY it was created in the first place. ...
[ /quote]

Completely unrelated to my comment but sure. Every time someone posts a comment about SOA or Dexter you jump in with your critique based on nothing, which was my point.



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[Bluce Ree]

Sigh...

Come on dude, you're better than that. I used your exact argument to prove how ridiculous it was. You replied with something nonsensical and almost childish in its reasoning. Of course rapists can be raped. There was nothing consensual about the premise I laid out. Again, it's your argument that I'm using here.

Some subjects are ridiculous, dude. Did your rapist ever rape anyone innocent? How was he taught to channel his urges to become a butt-fucking vigilante? The very image is laughable.

I'm not arguing that Dexter is a good show because he kills killers. Killers in mainstream entertainment are more acceptable to society as is demonstrated by the various forms they appear. Mob stories, crooked cops, soldiers gone off the deep end, vigilante ex mercenaries, etc. These portray different kinds of killers.

A show about a vigilante butt fucker wouldn't make it off the cutting room floor except maybe as a disturbed parody.





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[shavedape]

His urge is a metaphor from which the story makes social commentary. How much of the show did you watch?

I saw the first season back when I had Showtime. I dropped those channels when it became clear there wasn't any compelling reason to have them as they lacked quality programming.

I find the story compelling and the character's struggle to find his humanity intriguing.

A psychopath by his very nature is inhumane. He is a mental defective. Just because a psychopath can interact in society and form personal relationships that doesn't imbue him with "humanity", it just makes him a good liar.

Yeah, it is relevant. It's a good indicator that the audience will remain focused on the story and not the acts of killing. A bad story would be disguised with lots of explosions and gore.

So because there aren't copious amounts of blood and gore that means the premise is a worthy one? That the show is somehow less demented in it's depiction of a psychopath and thereby it is okay? That a demented psychopath is worthy of being a protagonist because he's all cuddly and sweet on the outside, plus he cleans up his messes in a fastidious fashion? M'kay dude, m'kay.

You do realize that psychopath does not mean one is automatically a sick, twisted killer. Surgeons are psychopaths. They need to be to do the nasty shit they do to humans in surgery. Certain successful CEOs are psychopaths. It's a pretty big list, actually. It doesn't mean they're all predisposed to killing.

I'm sorry to insult you here, I truly am as I genuinely respect your intellect but dude, you are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy off base on this one. Here's the definition of a psychopath. You'll note that surgeons do not fall into this catagory, same with CEO's despite your attempt to qualify them as such:

psy·cho·path
ˈsīkəˌpaTH/
noun

1. 1.
   a person suffering from chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behavior.
   synonyms:madman, madwoman, maniac, lunatic, psychotic, sociopath; More
   

So, now I'm a serial killer because I like the show?

I never said or implied that you were a serial killer for liking the show. That's just dumb. Please stop "reasoning" like a high school girl.

I am saying that there is something wrong in your rational faculty if you find the fictional examination of a happy go lucky, gee shucks psychopath entertaining. Obviously you disagree. That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

SGU's science fiction angle was window dressing. It was a melodrama set in a sci-fi backdrop.

Yes, I quite agree. In fact, I was going to mention SGU in this regard but didn't want to go off on a big "window dressing" tangent. But since you tossed it out there, the fact is that the stargate was the premise for the movie and SG-1 and SGA. For the most part it was not window dressing although one could argue that that changed later in those particular shows. But SGU seemed to use the stargate merely as window dressing from the start. So on that we agree. You can zip up your pants now.

Just because something is the premise of a show does not mean it is also not window dressing. The show attracts viewers based on the premise yet the story may expand out of the premise.

True, as I've mentioned in the quote above. But the point you're missing is that Dexter originated as a show about a psychopath, not a stargate. It was a sick and demented premise to begin with. And whether or not the show devolved into unicorns and rainbows is irrelevant as the premise still remained the examination of a fictional psychopath and how he functioned in the world.

Or are you here to tell me that I'm wrong and the show changed from the first season and was no longer about a psychopath and how he functions in society but rather about how he became a loving family man that never had to mop up a bloody murder scene ever again?

 

[Overmind One]

That's a pretty specific list of eps, also completely disconnected and random. It's safe to say you never really watches the show.

No, I did not watch it in earnest. People kept trying to get me to watch it. I sampled it...but 10 episodes is all I needed.

I have a specific list because they are downloaded and all in the same folder.

 

[shavedape]

No, I did not watch it in earnest. People kept trying to get me to watch it. I sampled it...but 10 episodes is all I needed.

I have a specific list because they are downloaded and all in the same folder.

10 episodes is more than enough to form an objective opinion about a show. :encouragement:

 

[Bluce Ree]

I


I'm sorry to insult you here, I truly am as I genuinely respect your intellect but dude, you are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy off base on this one. Here's the definition of a psychopath. You'll note that surgeons do not fall into this catagory, same with CEO's despite your attempt to qualify them as such:

You know me well enough to know that I don't post shit I pull straight from my ass.

www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-pros-to-being-a-psychopath-96723962/

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/2084246/

www.digitalspy.com/fun/news/a437450/professions-with-most-psychopaths-revealed-lawyers-journalists.html



Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk[/quote][/quote]

 

[Overmind One]

That's a pretty specific list of eps, also completely disconnected and random. It's safe to say you never really watches the show.

I saw the first season back when I had Showtime. I dropped those channels when it became clear there wasn't any compelling reason to have them as they lacked quality programming.


A psychopath by his very nature is inhumane. He is a mental defective. Just because a psychopath can interact in society and form personal relationships that doesn't imbue him with "humanity", it just makes him a good liar.

So because there aren't copious amounts of blood and gore that means the premise is a worthy one? That the show is somehow less demented in it's depiction of a psychopath and thereby it is okay? That a demented psychopath is worthy of being a protagonist because he's all cuddly and sweet on the outside, plus he cleans up his messes in a fastidious fashion? M'kay dude, m'kay.

I'm sorry to insult you here, I truly am as I genuinely respect your intellect but dude, you are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy off base on this one. Here's the definition of a psychopath. You'll note that surgeons do not fall into this catagory, same with CEO's despite your attempt to qualify them as such:

psy·cho·path
ˈsīkəˌpaTH/
noun

1. 1.
   a person suffering from chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behavior.
   synonyms:madman, madwoman, maniac, lunatic, psychotic, sociopath; More

I never said or implied that you were a serial killer for liking the show. That's just dumb. Please stop "reasoning" like a high school girl.

I get what Bluce is saying, and I get it that he likes the show for reasons other than he is like the characters in these types of show...for the stories, the writing, the way the plot unfolds, etc. But to me watching one of these mentally toxic shows is just not happening. Some part of me feels disgust and revulsion at the premise, no matter who the characters are being played by or who is writing the story.

I am saying that there is something wrong in your rational faculty if you find the fictional examination of a happy go lucky, gee shucks psychopath entertaining. Obviously you disagree. That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

Yes, I quite agree. In fact, I was going to mention SGU in this regard but didn't want to go off on a big "window dressing" tangent. But since you tossed it out there, the fact is that the stargate was the premise for the movie and SG-1 and SGA. For the most part it was not window dressing although one could argue that that changed later in those particular shows. But SGU seemed to use the stargate merely as window dressing from the start. So on that we agree. You can zip up your pants now.

True, as I've mentioned in the quote above. But the point you're missing is that Dexter originated as a show about a psychopath, not a stargate. It was a sick and demented premise to begin with. And whether or not the show devolved into unicorns and rainbows is irrelevant as the premise still remained the examination of a fictional psychopath and how he functioned in the world.

Or are you here to tell me that I'm wrong and the show changed from the first season and was no longer about a psychopath and how he functions in society but rather about how he became a loving family man that never had to mop up a bloody murder scene ever again?

OMG, you are in my head. I love Bluce, and I just got off the phone with him...and I have to stick with Ape on this particular thread.