Depression an inflamation ?

Discussion in 'General Science Discussions' started by heisenberg, Feb 26, 2017.

  1. heisenberg

    heisenberg Earl Grey Staff Member

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    You know how popular Drugs are with antidepressants. Rather than taking this drastic approach which we humans love to do, here is a very different perspective. With the extensive use of antibiotics, I think our gut health maybe the reason why many are so depressed. Antibiotics although does destroy the bad bacteria but it also kills good bacteria and I can bet that no doctor will tell you start taking probiotics to fix your inner gut. Unfortunately, antibiotics is like anything, it kills anything in its path. It has no prejudice but it seems to have created an even meaner disease which is depression. Antibiotics maybe the reason why many of us have become allergic to so many common things such as pollen, Peanuts, Milk, Eggs etc. It might be the reason for a rise in other diseases as well such cancer too.

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn5047-antibiotics-linked-to-huge-rise-in-allergies/

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/110517110315.htm
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
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  2. heisenberg

    heisenberg Earl Grey Staff Member

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    This is one of the reason why bacterias like Staphylococcus aureus which was a bacteria that grows in our noses/skin at first turned nasty and mutated into Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus. This is basically evolution and natural selection at work. I am not saying the use of antibiotics are bad, but it seems that we have not thought of what else it could be affecting in our gut and the overuse of it which is most often overlooked

    Doctors prescribing antibiotics for coughs, cuts and everything. With our obsession with quick fixes, it has led to a whole sorts of other problems. No one has bothered to take into account the long term ramifications.
     
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  3. heisenberg

    heisenberg Earl Grey Staff Member

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  4. Lord Ba'al

    Lord Ba'al GateFans Member

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    What does this mean in plainer English?
     
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  5. heisenberg

    heisenberg Earl Grey Staff Member

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    In simple terms they are transplanting shit from one patient to another and seeing positive results. Yes I know, gross...
     
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  6. Jim of WVa

    Jim of WVa Well Known GateFan

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    Yes, Intestinal flora transplants has been approved by the FDA since 2013.

     
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  7. Lord Ba'al

    Lord Ba'al GateFans Member

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    That is gross indeed, yet I can imagine there can be great benefits to it. I'd just hope they'd screen the shit really really thoroughly to make sure they don't put in any unwanted guests.
     
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  8. heisenberg

    heisenberg Earl Grey Staff Member

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    I wonder how far the science will go... :D lol.
     
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  9. Overmind One

    Overmind One GateFans Gatemaster Staff Member

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    OMG....just who needs this type of treatment? All you have to do to re-populate your intestinal flora is eat live yogurt cultures and drink river water (fresh, like mountain streams). I ain't eating NOBODY's shit!
     
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  10. heisenberg

    heisenberg Earl Grey Staff Member

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    It's not eating but transplanting. It's still gross though. The problem with a lot of people develop Allergies to Milk due to using harsh or strong antibiotics so your body starts to attack Milk/Egg protein and sends you into shock or you have dermatis or depression/anxiety even.
     
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  11. Overmind One

    Overmind One GateFans Gatemaster Staff Member

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    Human adults are not supposed to be drinking any sort of milk whatsoever. Not even human milk. Milk is the nourishment of babies, not adults. The body's shift to lactose intolerance is a natural process designed to deter adults from drinking the milk from lactating females so that the infant food supply is protected. Nature has thought of everything. Being able to digest lactose is an ability shared by a tiny percentage of the global population, and just because they can digest it does not mean that it is good for them.
     
  12. heisenberg

    heisenberg Earl Grey Staff Member

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    Then explain why an egg allergy exists?


    Milk Intolerance is not the same as Milk allergies. Two totally separate things. People always get these two mixed up. I am not sure where this misconception started but I hear it from doctors too which is annoying.

    One is not being able to digest it but you become gassy, fart a lot, get diarrhea which is Intolerant. Meaning that the body isn't able to digest it,while being allergic is when your body is able to digest it but the immune system sees as an invadar so it attacks it. Being allergic to food is far more fatal and will cause the following
    -> Runny nose
    ->Asthma style symptoms
    ->Severe depression
    ->Insomnia
    ->Severe Anxiety
    ->Hair loss/Hair thinning
    ->Trouble losing weight or losing precious muscle mass
    ->Dark Circles under the eye
    ->Irritability/Angerness
    ->Skin looking pale/sick
    ->Nightmares
    ->Nervous Breakdown
    ->anaphylactic shock
    ->Your brain playing tricks with you.
    ->Weight gain
    ->Frequent urination
    ->Dermatitis
    ->Dry Skin/getting unrefreshed sleep
    ->Death

    Doctors often overlook allergies for being the cause of depression but instead go for pills as the solution to fix the depression.

    Problem is though it's extremely hard to pinpoint as to what causes allergies. I have a hypothesis that it's down to your lifestyle changes whether it's going from bad to good or vice versa. There is also environmental changes which would influence your allergies. For example, if a person from say Asia was to come to the west, the environment is totally different, the air, the water and food is totally different which would mean that someone will adapt to the changes.

    Now given that we are adaptive creators, our immune system is still generations behind. It doesn't seem to adjust to the changes in climate very well or the changes in the environment very well. It becomes way too sensitive and then it has too many false positives which it ends of destroying or lacking precious nutrients.

    The same scenario would apply if a guy from the west say america was to live in china or india. It would be very hard for someone to adapt to the changes in environment.
     
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  13. Lord Ba'al

    Lord Ba'al GateFans Member

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    Gee, I could actually consider having a fair bit of those symptoms you mentioned. Although I must say that many things on that list seem kinda randomly thrown in. I don't mean to say that it is not correct. But how the hell do you test such things?

    Runny nose - It happens, you could have a cold, could just be due to temperature changes, I'm a smoker so I think I more or less have a permanent very mild cold.
    Asthma style symptoms - Again, smoker.
    Severe depression - Don't have this.
    Insomnia - Had this a fair amount when I was a lot younger. These days only sometimes.
    Severe Anxiety - Nope.
    Hair loss/Hair thinning - Yeah I've been losing hair, it has to do with me getting older.
    Trouble losing weight or losing precious muscle mass - Meh, hard to say, there were times when I had trouble losing weight, but in the past two weeks I lost about 6 kilos without exercising and while eating fries almost every single day. As for losing muscle, that's what happens when you don't use them, so I've started using my weights again, yesterday by coincidence.
    Dark Circles under the eye - Lol, I've lived with that sort of stuff all my life. Guess it's a result of barely sleeping and not eating very healthy.
    Irritability/Angerness - It happens, especially when I'm running out of cash.
    Skin looking pale/sick - Hmmm... not so much for me.
    Nightmares - Naw, maybe had three or four in my entire lifetime so far. I rarely ever even remember a small part of a dream. In fact, I don't have any evidence for actually having any dreams for about 99% of the time, so maybe that's why I don't have nightmares.
    Nervous Breakdown - That is not really in my character. I'm too easy going. Although I can feel work related stress sometimes.
    anaphylactic shock - Thankfully no.
    Your brain playing tricks with you. - Nope.
    Weight gain - Lol, it happens, usually right after weight loss. :P
    Frequent urination - I do urinate a lot while I'm at work, but I also drink a lot of water so I figure that would be the reason for it.
    Dermatitis - Not really sure what this is. I have some oddly feeling skin on my elbows, had it for years, feels very dry, it's not spreading so I leave it alone.
    Dry Skin/getting unrefreshed sleep - Yep I know what that's like, the unrefreshed sleep. Probably due to my cats/wife/something else waking me up throughout the night combined with the fact that I would usually get about 6 to 7 hours of sleep time max. Even now when I'm off work I only slept about 6.5 hours, I hate that but that's life.
    Death - Thankfully not yet and don't expect it to happen anytime soon.

    As you see many of these symptoms can easily be attributed to other potential causes or just be taken to be a fact of life in general. The symptoms are also so broad that it would seem far fatched to think that they would all be caused by one thing. Once again, I'm not saying that you are incorrect. I don't have any data to believe either way.
     
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  14. heisenberg

    heisenberg Earl Grey Staff Member

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    Well you can get yourself tested. The thing with allergy is that it can come up at anytime and you don't know that you have an allergy until you get tested. I really think baldness is less to do with genetics and more to do with your immune system attacking the proteins its made from.

    We can survive stress, no problem. The human body has been through far worse shit imaginable, but allergies to food often get overlooked. I am no doctor but if you are having issues with sleep as in feeling you hit a brick wall, wake up sometimes, you maybe allergic to food/dust or developed an allergy to it. Get your shit tested along with a skin prick test. DO NOT go for the blood test - they just test the IgE which always turns up negative and are just a cheap way of getting tested when they should be testing the other 4 types of antibodies which is. These tests are often dangerous because they told tell the patient that they are suffering from an actual allergy. The dumbass doctors tend to do the tests that they would do on kids on adults ffs. IgE will always turn up negative or inconclusive

    There 4 other types

    https://www.bio-rad-antibodies.com/immunoglobulins-classes-subclasses.html



     
  15. Lord Ba'al

    Lord Ba'al GateFans Member

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    Okay, first of all I'm not bald or anywhere near that. Perhaps I gave the wrong impression with my post. But over the years I have seen the hairline receeding. As far as I'm concerned that's a normal part of life. I doubt that I could avoid this by eating differently. There is a small bald spot near the crown of my head, but I'm not really concerned about it.

    As for the other "symptoms" I mentioned, I can easily manage them. Whether or not they would be caused by allergies, they are not even barely a nuisance to me, so I don't have any will to go get tested. I tend to avoid doctors and medicine as much as possible and rely on my body's own strengths and capabilities. If there is something really out of the ordinary then yes I might consult a doctor. In my experience though it generally doesn't really help much and I would have probably gotten better without the medicine as well, but who could say.

    There is one thing that annoys me. Since I have moved to Northern Ireland, I seem to have developed an "allergy" for deodorant. It happened about three or four months after arriving here, maybe even two. I never had this problem when I lived in the Netherlands. I put allergy between quotation marks because I'm not sure it is an allergy. What happened was that my armpits became itchy. Then along with the itch it started to hurt. It started with a single tiny spot in the center of the right pit and then gradually spread out. Then the left pit started to do the same about a week later. It spread down to the sides of my torso, not all the way down just say the sides of the upper part of the rib cage. It also spread to the backside of my upper arms, not all the way to the elbows but somewhere between the biceps and triceps. The skin was quite red or even brownish red at some points. And there was some flaking as well. I went to see a doctor for that, because this was way out of the ordinary and quite frankly highly annoying. I was basically scratching my pits every minute of the day, even though I attempted to avoid it. His opinion was that the skin had gotten unbalanced. He was talking about microbes living in/on the skin, some of which go "this way" and some go "that way". (these were not his actual words, I just don't remember them, so I'm using these terms to indicate that there was some sort of microbial battle going on and one side was clearly getting the upper hand) Apparently, something must have triggered this imbalance. Since I had noticed that it started to hurt more quite quickly after applying deodorant, he suggested not using it for a while. He also prescribed like five (!) different medications or so. There was a special kind of liquid soap that I should use. There was some kind of gel that I would have to apply several times a day. Then there was a cream that I should apply before going to bed. I believe there was also some kind of pills I had to take, probably antibiotics. I don't remember it accurately because that was about two years ago. I think I applied the cream once and the gel a few times, mostly I stuck to the soap because I felt like it helped (perhaps placebo effect, perhaps not) and also I desperately needed it to make me smell a little bit less bad. The gel also seemed to help but I found it really annoying to apply, especially because it had to be done at certain times a day and my schedule was all over the place. Anyway, I did not use deodorant for a while and slowly it got better. When I thought it was better I applied it again and the next day or the day after the shit had hit the fan again. Then I started just spraying deodorant in my shirt before putting it on, I had to do something because I could smell that I smelled horrible and if I can smell it then other people can smell it ten times better. It did help keep the smell down a bit but over the course of the day the effect of course wore off. I could feel that applying the deodorant to the shirt would still irritate my skin because it would of course come in contact with it, especially when scratching, but it wasn't nearly as bad as it would be when applying it directly to the skin. So months and months went by where I only sprayed it on my shirt and after time it seemed better to me. I do apply it to the skin again now but I try to use it sparingly. If I know I'm gonna spend the day at home, like in the weekends, I probably won't use it at all so my skin gets time to "heal". I have a feeling that the issue could crop back up at any time, in fact yesterday when I applied some I could feel my pits hurt/itch right away. It subsided after a while though and today it's not bothering me so far. It seems I can no longer use deodorant as a "normal person" would.

    I have wondered whether it was every actually the deodorant itself that instigated the issue. Sure, it got worse when I applied it, but I applied the same stuff for years and years before and it was not a problem. At least I don't remember it being a problem like this. I must say that I think I went to the doctor in the Netherlands for this once before, probably at least a couple of years before moving to this country, but it was nowhere near the same experience. I think perhaps it lasted about a week at that time and was far less severe, that's why I can't really recall it properly. There are a number of other factors that were different from before. Since I came here, I started using Dove soap which was supposedly Ph-neutral. I also started using shower gel regularly in combination with the soap, so first wash with soap, rinse, then shower gel. I did use shower gel before in the Netherlands but not the soap. The only other factor which changed is the environment, which as far as I'm concerned includes water, air and food. The climate here is not very different from the Netherlands, although it appears to be more moist and less extreme. I always wondered whether there could be something in the water here that is an instigating or contributing factor to the aforementioned problem. I also wondered about air pollution being a potential contributing factor. Mostly I am suspicious of the soap I mentioned, so I've stopped using it. I must say that it seems to have gotten better since then, but I still have no way of knowing whether or not the soap is really a factor in all this.

    Anyway, there you have it. Got any thoughts on this?
     
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  16. Overmind One

    Overmind One GateFans Gatemaster Staff Member

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    Nobody has really addressed the concept in the title of this thread. If I had to give a succinct answer to it, I would say that no, depression is not an inflammation unless you are using the term "inflammation" only figuratively. Depression is a mental state of being, not a physical disease (which can include inflammation). Attempting to displace a correctable but difficult mental condition by blaming it on a physical ailment is a dangerous thing to do. It has the effect is turning one's attention away from the real problem and treating a new problem that did not exist previously.

    I say this from my experience with people in recovery. Many addicted drug users try and blame their disease on their parents. "My mom was a drug addict, so it's in our genes". Um, no. Gaining "root access" to your own mind is a very powerful thing to be able to do. Doing that allows you to identify "psychological malware" hiding deep within your psyche. Once you can see it, you can eliminate it.
     
  17. Overmind One

    Overmind One GateFans Gatemaster Staff Member

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    I have watched mine recede gracefully, and now I comb my hair back. It's part of age. :) Nothing to fret about. Your lovely wife will still like it. :)

    I know this one! I have gone through it. But I can pin it down to a specific thing: Mitchum roll-on deodorant. I was always a sport stick deodorant user, but I hated the white residue it would leave on the inside nook of the sleeve. Especially noticeable on darker clothes. I switched to Mitchum roll-on, and about an hour after application I began to itch. Then the itching gave way to swelling and then pain in both pits. Then, one side actually burst! A spoonful or so of semi clear fluid. I stopped use immediately, but the next day, the itch spread down the sides of my torso (sweat?), followed by pain but no fluid buildup. The original skin in my armpits then turned darker and flaked off. After that, I was back to normal. :) But I would recommend getting the clear liquid type deodorants, and do not buy any deodorants in the same brand family as the one you were using.

    Smelly body is never good and never tolerable. Even those who might not say anything are quietly disgusted. You can stop the smell and continue not to use deodorant by showering at least every other day and use pure unrefined virgin coconut oil to moisturize under there. It sinks in without leaving a greasy feel, and is also anti-fungal/anti-microbial. Magical stuff. :)
     
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  18. Overmind One

    Overmind One GateFans Gatemaster Staff Member

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    I did not mention eggs at all. :) But milk I know about. I imagine many things in non-organic eggs might have negative effects on the body. But eggs in themselves are one of man's earliest foods. What exactly IN the eggs would one develop an allergy to? There is a deep and long documented study of foods that humans eat. Especially meats and eggs (and fish). I watched the entire video posted in this thread, and the guy sounds like he is making a logical argument for depression being a physical ailment, but his supports are opinion. speculation and very little facts provable by science. It's similar to what magicians do...convince the audience that the "magic" he is doing is real. It isn't. There is almost no actual science in the entire video.

    Depression is an emotional/mental state, not a physical disease. However, physical disease CAN and frequently DOES create depression within the individual who is physically ill.
     
  19. heisenberg

    heisenberg Earl Grey Staff Member

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    The problem is though Science in this area is very limited. I don't think anyone has done an experiment to see if our gut health would have an impact on our mental health because it's relatively very new way of thinking but his reasoning does sound logical and sound. Emotions are simply chemical and well, signals from our brains that are often irrational :P. We have all been there.
     
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  20. Overmind One

    Overmind One GateFans Gatemaster Staff Member

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    When I am sick, I am depressed. No two ways about it. I can't do the things I like doing, I can't go out, I can't interact with others or my pets like I want to, many immediate issues. That is easy to see. The not so easy to see things like being older, being overweight or perhaps even having crooked teeth or a scar or an obvious birthmark could damage self-image and cause depression. Not having money or food or nice clothes or a job might do it too. But in all of those scenarios, depression remains firmly in the mental arena. It's CAUSES, however, may be physical, but not directly.

    Like you said, it is a new way of thinking. But me being the skeptic that I am, I will still demand scientific proof in the form of empirical data that can be replicated by others before giving it a shot.
     

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