Agriculture and Climate across the United States

[YJ02]

I'm against the Climate Change agenda but I'm all for genuine pollution control. The two are completely different issues. The Climate Change agenda is a vehicle for certain people to gain control over the population. Pollution control is not part of that agenda other than being used as lip service towards getting those people the control and power they so hungrily crave.

*Carbon credits are the biggest load of horse crap to come down the pike in a long time. They are a scam, pure and simple.

this is essentially what i believe...

puss, you are the epitome of pith

 

[YJ02]

Even WITH the fires, California is still feeding most of the nation. At least the produce part. PA, at 46,055 sq mi, can fit 4 times in California with space left over. Also we have lots of desert to the east in the southern part.

i have no disagreement with that

my point is that growing SO MUCH of a nation's food supply in a area where water depends on diversion and irrigation schemes and crops are susceptible to fires WHEN so much naturally fertile and well watered land is siting idle is a bit like ppl in hurricane zones continuing to rebuild WHEN the scale of those places should never have been allowed to become so large to begin with

the east should have never been abandoned by BIG AG in the way it was...cheaper land and cheaper labor over the last 100 yrs was apart of this

again..you can make virtually anyplace a great place to grow stuff IF you force it be one through water diversion/importation schemes

they grow a hell of a lot of food in the Saudi and Israeli deserts in this way--because they have little other options, we do have options though

 

[Overmind One]

i have no disagreement with that

my point is that growing SO MUCH of a nation's food supply in a area where water depends on diversion and irrigation schemes and crops are susceptible to fires WHEN so much naturally fertile and well watered land is siting idle is a bit like ppl in hurricane zones continuing to rebuild WHEN the scale of those places should never have been allowed to become so large to begin with

the east should have never been abandoned by BIG AG in the way it was...cheaper land and cheaper labor over the last 100 yrs was apart of this

again..you can make virtually anyplace a great place to grow stuff IF you force it be one through water diversion/importation schemes

they grow a hell of a lot of food in the Saudi and Israeli deserts in this way--because they have little other options, we do have options though

What Big AG needs is a controlled, predictable environment. Places with defined seasons are anything but that. Anywhere where snow falls at any time of the year is a death sentence to just about all food crops. The east experiences winters which include snow. Temperatures fall to near and below zero EVERY year. You just don't have that in California. You even have it in our neighboring states to the north like Oregon and Washington. Florida provides some snowless places, but the factor there is humidity and the types of insects which live there, plus the hurricane and flooding factor. There are a lot of reasons California is the breadbasket of the nation.

 

[PussyGalore]

What Big AG needs is a controlled, predictable environment. Places with defined seasons are anything but that. Anywhere where snow falls at any time of the year is a death sentence to just about all food crops. The east experiences winters which include snow. Temperatures fall to near and below zero EVERY year. You just don't have that in California. You even have it in our neighboring states to the north like Oregon and Washington. Florida provides some snowless places, but the factor there is humidity and the types of insects which live there, plus the hurricane and flooding factor. There are a lot of reasons California is the breadbasket of the nation.

Florida also gets damaging frosts in Winter sometimes. The cold air dips down low enough over the country that the citrus crops get ruined. In fact, a couple years ago it got so cold in Florida that manatees were dying. My friends who live down there reported that dead manatees were in every canal.

 

[Overmind One]

Florida also gets damaging frosts in Winter sometimes. The cold air dips down low enough over the country that the citrus crops get ruined. In fact, a couple years ago it got so cold in Florida that manatees were dying. My friends who live down there reported that dead manatees were in every canal.

Yeah, I remember that. It simply does not snow much here in California. In 1962, there was a brief snowfall in downtown Los Angeles (an area about 5 sq miles), and it was minuscule. But it just does not snow here except in the mountains where nobody is growing crops. This is true for the Central Valley where most everything is grown. Our winter is defined by increased rainfall, which is beneficial to crops.

 

[YJ02]

Anywhere where snow falls at any time of the year is a death sentence to just about all food crops. The east experiences winters which include snow. Temperatures fall to near and below zero EVERY year. You just don't have that in California.

snow DOES NOT FALL AT ANY TIME DURING THE YR here!!!!

thats pretty funny

what we can predict-in MOST eastern states is that there will be an abundant water supply

one that does not need govt intervention to control (other then local)

what Cali cannot predict or guarantee is that it will have water or that there will be no fire

i am not saying--- stop trying to put words into my statements that are not what i said or intend please----that cali ag should be ended

just that is we had a more robust use of our lands NATIONWIDE in a ordered and earth friendly manner (a lot less chem fertilizers for one) then we could have a higher production rate of fresh fruit and vegetables and other products

just think; ppl in inner eastern cities would have better access to the stuff if the supply was increased and therefore, made cheaper

and, it makes no sense to have a nation as big as ours, and i presume much of canada, dependent on one area that is so prone to water shortage and other natural disaster

it would make far more sense to have a evenly distributed system of production where each area grows what can be grown there without forcing nature to do it

<< thats another thing; TOO MANY americans have become spoiled on getting things out of season. we need to learn to once again live within the ways of nature. forcing nature with chemicals and other methods is very damaging to the soil and the eco system. what we learned --as in my wife and i--is that even something like eggs are really seasonal. you must "trick" and use unnatural means to get even a half of the production in fall and early winter NO MATTER WHERE IN THE NATION you are. it is a total daylight thing (14 HRS minimum needed) not a temperature thing>>

like in PA, PA is very amenable to growing everything from cool weather crops (we grow-in our garden--spinach, cabbage and lettuce all the way into october) to peaches and other tree fruits that require a cold season for dormancy. it is also excellent for corn and other grains, there is also a very robust grape and wine "industry" though again, a lot of it is not counted in production by the US govt or big ag because it is private or co-op owned

now just think how much all of the east could produce IF it had big ag's money invested in it

this is about common sense not about some regional rivalry bullshit as you seem to be trying to do

 

[Overmind One]

snow DOES NOT FALL AT ANY TIME DURING THE YR here!!!!

thats pretty funny

Well, why was 2018 record snowfall for PA?

https://weather.com/storms/winter/n...lvania-close-to-record-snowiest-winter-season

I am not arguing here. I am not cheerleading for California. I am trying to explain why California is the choice of Big AG for growing commercial crops. The reasoning still stands, and there is not enough land not vulnerable to the changing of seasons in the eastern United States to guarantee the yields that California can guarantee.

what we can predict-in MOST eastern states is that there will be an abundant water supply

one that does not need govt intervention to control (other then local)

what Cali cannot predict or guarantee is that it will have water or that there will be no fire

Like I said before, the east experiences widely different climate because if the seasonal natures of the eastern states (despite your particular residence area). There is nowhere in California that experiences these variances to that degree. I have seen snow in San Francisco, but nobody is growing crops there. Sacramento which is not far away, does not get any snowfall and it does not freeze.

i am not saying--- stop trying to put words into my statements that are not what i said or intend please----that cali ag should be ended

just that is we had a more robust use of our lands NATIONWIDE in a ordered and earth friendly manner (a lot less chem fertilizers for one) then we could have a higher production rate of fresh fruit and vegetables and other products

I think that the agriculture industry would take advantage of that if they agreed with you.

just think; ppl in inner eastern cities would have better access to the stuff if the supply was increased and therefore, made cheaper

and, it makes no sense to have a nation as big as ours, and i presume much of canada, dependent on one area that is so prone to water shortage and other natural disaster

Where is the labor force needed to harvest and process the produce in the east? We have migrant workers here.

it would make far more sense to have a evenly distributed system of production where each area grows what can be grown there without forcing nature to do it

I agree with that. This is why I want to grow my own produce at home and bypass the market for that. I can get fruit from my local Farmer's Market, leaving only meat and stuff like seasonings and other ingredients as a reason to shop for food at a market. Thing is, MOST people can't be bothered doing any of this.

<< thats another thing; TOO MANY americans have become spoiled on getting things out of season. we need to learn to once again live within the ways of nature. forcing nature with chemicals and other methods is very damaging to the soil and the eco system. what we learned --as in my wife and i--is that even something like eggs are really seasonal. you must "trick" and use unnatural means to get even a half of the production in fall and early winter NO MATTER WHERE IN THE NATION you are. it is a total daylight thing (14 HRS minimum needed) not a temperature thing>>

Perhaps, but you seem to be viewing this only through your personal lens, and not seeing the big picture. The goal of Big AG is to feed as many people as possible as cheaply as possible, and turn a profit. I agree about self-sufficiency and using novel means to grow my own food. But that does not make me ignore the reasons why they have chosen CA to run their biggest operations.

like in PA, PA is very amenable to growing everything from cool weather crops (we grow-in our garden--spinach, cabbage and lettuce all the way into october) to peaches and other tree fruits that require a cold season for dormancy. it is also excellent for corn and other grains, there is also a very robust grape and wine "industry" though again, a lot of it is not counted in production by the US govt or big ag because it is private or co-op owned

now just think how much all of the east could produce IF it had big ag's money invested in it

The list of states in terms of agricultural production is easily available here:

http://www.stuffaboutstates.com/agriculture/

this is about common sense not about some regional rivalry bullshit as you seem to be trying to do

You are the one taking it personal. It is just a simple fact that California produces the country's food. The reasons they have chosen California for this are pretty obvious. You make suggestions as to how the east could change production, and you have thoughts about shifting production, but those are your personal ideas and do not really matter to Big AG. You aren't being objective.

 

[Rac80]

Well OM1 you don't know much abt the south. other than Al Gore's tobacco farms, the production of produce is wildly variable. Oranges, peaches, lemons, limes, strawberries, etc.... Because their winters are super mild (snow is a rarity as is frost) they too have year round farming. Because I live in Indiana most of the produce in my stores comes from the South, not California. (I personally prefer Florida oranges. yes been to both cali & florida several times. )

Of course summertime it's usually my garden, but this year was the attack of the hungry bunnies!

 

[PussyGalore]

Agriculture has changed drastically over the last 50 years or so. When I was a kid a lot of produce was seasonal. Peaches, plums, strawberries, melons, oranges and even apples were only available at certain times of the year. (If it wasn't Fall you couldn't find a Macintosh apple to save your life.) But now you can find all those things in a "fresh" state all year long.

Granted, these things often taste flavorless and attenuated because growing outside their season isn't natural. Plus the soil and/or growing medium nowadays doesn't add anything to the flavor. Compare a hot house tomato to one grown in your backyard and there is a big difference in flavor and texture.

But it's the era of big agriculture now and the days of seasonal growing are long gone.

 

[YJ02]

I drove through NC, VA, MD and PA on my way to NY

sound slike you either went up i95 or i 81?

like my visits to san bernadino; that route is hardly representative of any of those states

you should have taken some side roads

 

[YJ02]

My friends who live down there reported that dead manatees were in every canal.

well, good thing we don't eat Manatees

 

[YJ02]

But it's the era of big agriculture now and the days of seasonal growing are long gone.

so, we should just wait till CALI does have a few more yrs of no water/little water and then fix the system?


you know, there is not much outside of food production that US states have become "specialized in"

pretty much every other industry is spread out over the nation..sure their are clusters that dominate-like Michigan once was for cars, but even back 'in the day' the auto industry wasn't all crammed into one place only

what will we do if aliens land in the Central Valley? Or, some 'rogue' nation pops a nuke there?

we're screwed thats what

diversification is seen as a good thing in nearly every other human endeavor. many other nations grow crops over the entirety of their nation. there is simply no good logic in having over 50% of the nation's (and canada's id guess) come from one place

 

[YJ02]

Well, why was 2018 record snowfall for PA?

https://weather.com/storms/winter/n...lvania-close-to-record-snowiest-winter-season

I am not arguing here. I am not cheerleading for California. I am trying to explain why California is the choice of Big AG for growing commercial crops. The reasoning still stands, and there is not enough land not vulnerable to the changing of seasons in the eastern United States to guarantee the yields that California can guarantee.



Like I said before, the east experiences widely different climate because if the seasonal natures of the eastern states (despite your particular residence area). There is nowhere in California that experiences these variances to that degree. I have seen snow in San Francisco, but nobody is growing crops there. Sacramento which is not far away, does not get any snowfall and it does not freeze.



I think that the agriculture industry would take advantage of that if they agreed with you.



Where is the labor force needed to harvest and process the produce in the east? We have migrant workers here.



I agree with that. This is why I want to grow my own produce at home and bypass the market for that. I can get fruit from my local Farmer's Market, leaving only meat and stuff like seasonings and other ingredients as a reason to shop for food at a market. Thing is, MOST people can't be bothered doing any of this.



Perhaps, but you seem to be viewing this only through your personal lens, and not seeing the big picture. The goal of Big AG is to feed as many people as possible as cheaply as possible, and turn a profit. I agree about self-sufficiency and using novel means to grow my own food. But that does not make me ignore the reasons why they have chosen CA to run their biggest operations.



The list of states in terms of agricultural production is easily available here:

http://www.stuffaboutstates.com/agriculture/



You are the one taking it personal. It is just a simple fact that California produces the country's food. The reasons they have chosen California for this are pretty obvious. You make suggestions as to how the east could change production, and you have thoughts about shifting production, but those are your personal ideas and do not really matter to Big AG. You aren't being objective.

all i say is that MY POINT is not just about how things are now but how they should be and once were


the nation cannot eat big ag's profit

 

[YJ02]

Well, why was 2018 record snowfall for PA?

seriously!

clearly you know nothing of our geography here!!

i mean citing Erie winters is like using Buffalo as an example for Long Island

its called "lake effect snow"

and it hardly reaches more then 20 miles inland from the great lakes

and i never contended that we, in thenorth east,could grow all yr round

we just should be using all available arable land in the nation to the best effect

all eggs in one basket is always a bad idea..cali is that basket

 

[Overmind One]

seriously!

clearly you know nothing of our geography here!!

i mean citing Erie winters is like using Buffalo as an example for Long Island

its called "lake effect snow"

and it hardly reaches more then 20 miles inland from the great lakes

and i never contended that we, in thenorth east,could grow all yr round

we just should be using all available arable land in the nation to the best effect

all eggs in one basket is always a bad idea..cali is that basket

Like you, I have to depend on what I can find, because I don't live in your neck of the woods. I concede that without argument. But we were talking about California's role in agriculture in the US, localizing agriculture (decentralizing it) and the wisdom of moving the food supply back into the control of locals. I am 100% in agreement with that, and I plan to actually do something about it. I bought heirloom seeds for kale, lettuce, spinach, and two others. I will be buying my vertical wall planter and I will grow the veggies right in my apartment. I don't have land to plant on, but that doesn't mean I can't have my own private little farm!

 

[PussyGalore]

Like you, I have to depend on what I can find, because I don't live in your neck of the woods. I concede that without argument. But we were talking about California's role in agriculture in the US, localizing agriculture (decentralizing it) and the wisdom of moving the food supply back into the control of locals. I am 100% in agreement with that, and I plan to actually do something about it. I bought heirloom seeds for kale, lettuce, spinach, and two others. I will be buying my vertical wall planter and I will grow the veggies right in my apartment. I don't have land to plant on, but that doesn't mean I can't have my own private little farm!

Who needs to worry about frost when you have cats.

 

[Lord Ba'al]

Who needs to worry about frost when you have cats.

View attachment 34423

Your cat is busy getting high!

 

[YJ02]

Like you, I have to depend on what I can find, because I don't live in your neck of the woods. I concede that without argument. But we were talking about California's role in agriculture in the US, localizing agriculture (decentralizing it) and the wisdom of moving the food supply back into the control of locals. I am 100% in agreement with that, and I plan to actually do something about it. I bought heirloom seeds for kale, lettuce, spinach, and two others. I will be buying my vertical wall planter and I will grow the veggies right in my apartment. I don't have land to plant on, but that doesn't mean I can't have my own private little farm!

do you have access to a sunny, outside wall?

if so, will your landlord allow you to hang a vertical grower on it?

you can always put a little chicken wire or bird netting over it to keep out the birds and other critters

 

[Overmind One]

do you have access to a sunny, outside wall?

if so, will your landlord allow you to hang a vertical grower on it?

you can always put a little chicken wire or bird netting over it to keep out the birds and other critters

Yes, I have a balcony patio large enough to set up an outdoor vertical garden. But I would rather grow in controlled environment with lights (indoors). I already have experience with that , and the plants will be less vulnerable to bugs and birds and pests.