Agriculture and Climate across the United States

[Overmind One]

but also super vulnerable..we just got to turn off the tap

you guys are wasting so much of your own water

Um, no we aren't. But our President claimed we do. Hint: it's a lie.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/06/climate/trump-california-fire-tweets.html

As far as the driverless cars go, that is a no go in California for some time to come.

 

[YJ02]

Um, no we aren't. But our President claimed we do. Hint: it's a lie.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/06/climate/trump-california-fire-tweets.html

As far as the driverless cars go, that is a no go in California for some time to come.

actually, i was referring to the chronic water waste of the ag industry there

and referring to a time period a few yrs ago -before trump-when your gov had to impose water restrictions on all and finally on the ag industry

in any case, how does it make sense to grow so much stuff in a arid environment?

it doesn't, it is from long ago decisions made for profit by ppl trying to make money from their otherwise useless land; the mass migration of the nation's produce farming from the east and mid west-where water is abundant-to Cali. The east could collectively grow far more produce then Cali but so much of the infrastructure needed for that size industry as been stripped away a long time ago

anyhow, yea, no driverless cars..ever.please

 

[Overmind One]

actually, i was referring to the chronic water waste of the ag industry there

and referring to a time period a few yrs ago -before trump-when your gov had to impose water restrictions on all and finally on the ag industry

in any case, how does it make sense to grow so much stuff in a arid environment?

Arid? Have you ever been to California? Arizona and New Mexico and Nevada are arid. California is perfect for growing just about anything. Particularly the Central Valley where grapes and other fruits are grown. The biggest problem here in agriculture is ConAgra and other farming consortiums who are hoarding farmland and treating all produce as a product to make money.

it doesn't, it is from long ago decisions made for profit by ppl trying to make money from their otherwise useless land; the mass migration of the nation's produce farming from the east and mid west-where water is abundant-to Cali. The east could collectively grow far more produce then Cali but so much of the infrastructure needed for that size industry as been stripped away a long time ago

Wrong. If the midwest could grow the things that are grown in California, they would be growing them. You can't grow the kinds of crops grown in California in the midwest and east where it snows and gets hit by tornadoes and hurricanes. Its obvious you have never been here.

anyhow, yea, no driverless cars..ever.please

Notice where they are allowed to drive. California is not one of those places.

 

[YJ02]

You can't grow the kinds of crops grown in California in the midwest and east where it snows and gets hit by tornadoes and hurricanes.

name one product that cant be grown in the east other then the oh so critical product of pistachios

and no i did not watch this whole video.. just an example. if no water problem in Cali, then why the crisis? the areas being shown are Central valley and it looks pretty damn arid to me

we never have these issues here, no where near this damaging. every farm in the east s capable of using its own water through wells or open bodies n the property (rivers ,etc) due to the riparian laws that exist here.

i am not going to get in an argument about it, sure, there may be some moist areas, like Humboldt etc, but on the avg, Cali is dry compared to any state in the east

the reason for so much ag there is because of land grabs in the 1800's and the ppl owning them wanted to turn the land to profit, so water diversion schemes, dams and pipelines were made to enable that.

 

[YJ02]

the movement to de-californify the country's food production

https://www.motherjones.com/food/2015/04/decalifornify-cotton-vegetables-fruit-south/

 

[Overmind One]

name one product that cant be grown in the east other then the oh so critical product of pistachios

Oranges, lemons, limes, pineapples, bananas, avocados, kiwi, strawberries, grapes, plums. There are lots more, but I am making a point.

and no i did not watch this whole video.. just an example. if no water problem in Cali, then why the crisis? the areas being shown are Central valley and it looks pretty damn arid to me

It's not. I was born and raised here. Arid is the southwest, not Cali. So I am correct that you have never been here. One visit would anwer your question. . And what crisis? No crisis going on. Orange Bang is lying again.

we never have these issues here, no where near this damaging. every farm in the east s capable of using its own water through wells or open bodies n the property (rivers ,etc) due to the riparian laws that exist here.

Perhaps but what of the soil and climate? No comparison. You have 4 seasons. Calif has two. Wet and sunny, and dry and sunny. Crops can't freeze here.

i am not going to get in an argument about it, sure, there may be some moist areas, like Humboldt etc, but on the avg, Cali is dry compared to any state in the east

Calif is feeding the east, Midwest, south, and Canada and some foreign nations. Something wrong with your picture of here. Arid does not make for good farmland.

the reason for so much ag there is because of land grabs in the 1800's and the ppl owning them wanted to turn the land to profit, so water diversion schemes, dams and pipelines were made to enable that.

Where are you getting this? What dams feed the Central Valley? None. It's the climate that allows our ag industry. Only Florida comes close in the Spring to what we get for 3/4 of every year in terms of climate.

Visit before you start believing the nonsense. I think PA is lovely! I think livestock production in PA is higher than California. Your link gives the numbers for Calif agriculture production. You don't get that from arid land. If California was producing "dead harvests", wouldn't those numbers drop?

Perhaps new thread on this?

 

[Overmind One]

The sucking out of groundwater to feed the Central Valley is literally sinking the land:


If there were ever a break between the Pacific Ocean and the Central Valley, most all of Los Angeles would flood, the Central Valley would be inundated, and Death Valley will fill to an inland sea. Of saltwater. A large enough earthquake could shift the plates and make this happen. There is evidence that Death Valley was once ocean.

 

[heisenberg]

The sucking out of groundwater to feed the Central Valley is literally sinking the land:


If there were ever a break between the Pacific Ocean and the Central Valley, most all of Los Angeles would flood, the Central Valley would be inundated, and Death Valley will fill to an inland sea. Of saltwater. A large enough earthquake could shift the plates and make this happen. There is evidence that Death Valley was once ocean.

They should have built a desalination plant.

 

[Overmind One]

They should have built a desalination plant.

Santa Barbara did, and they still use it but it is not enough to cover more than Santa Barbara. Plants large enough to supply all of Los Angeles would be massive facilities, along the coast which is prime real estate.

 

[YJ02]

Oranges, lemons, limes, pineapples, bananas, avocados, kiwi, strawberries, grapes, plums. There are lots more, but I am making a point.

i am growing in my back yard -- kiwi,strawberries, grapes and plums as well as apples, pears,asian pears and peaches

the citrus can be and is grown in florida

avocados? hardly a necessity in anyone's diet those fall into the pistachio category!

 

[Overmind One]

i am growing in my back yard -- kiwi,strawberries, grapes and plums as well as apples, pears,asian pears and peaches

the citrus can be and is grown in florida

avocados? hardly a necessity in anyone's diet those fall into the pistachio category!

Well, you have a green thumb!

 

[PussyGalore]

They should have built a desalination plant.

I agree. This is what we should be spending our R&D on these days. Fresh water is a precious commodity west of the Mississippi. Water rights in that part of the country are insanely contentious. California in particular has a fascinating history with water. Books have been written about the "water wars".

William Mulholland was integral to the development of the southern California water system. It's telling that at the opening of the Los Angeles aqueduct Mulholland's terse ceremonial speech was a simple: "There it is. Take it." No doubt the dude was worn down from the ceaseless battle to get water to the growing city.

 

[YJ02]

The sucking out of groundwater to feed the Central Valley is literally sinking the land:


If there were ever a break between the Pacific Ocean and the Central Valley, most all of Los Angeles would flood, the Central Valley would be inundated, and Death Valley will fill to an inland sea. Of saltwater. A large enough earthquake could shift the plates and make this happen. There is evidence that Death Valley was once ocean.

so HOW does this help your argument?

the east has plenty of free water falling from the sky as well as abundant surface waters and great aquifers to tap with wells

this is my point; of course cali has some very fertile soil...so does most of north africa and the arabian peninsula. i mean its amazing what a little water can do to places in saudi where it is piped in. but that is the flaw--great soil because it has not been able to grow wild plants for so many yrs that would have tapped the nutrients out of it

the only reason why mass ag in the east is not being done now is because-for now- cali and fla and texas are cheaper places to grow stuff. not because of water; labor is a big part of it

also, over last 100 yrs, many farms in the east were abandoned, returned to a wild state, paved over or had golf course and housing developments on them

the land was more valuable for that then

Cali was designated a bread basket and there were not that many ppl living there then. then that changed mid century. the demand for water has become more and more elevated ; man vs ag vs natural needs (rivers salmon runs ,etc)

there are huge swathes of land in the east that could be put back to ag at an intense level if it would get the backing of BIG FOOD inc and its distribution systems

PA alone produces tons and tons of fresh fruit and veg every yr, it does not get "counted" though as so much of it is independently produced and sold locally through farmers markets or to local groceries and regional food supply systems as "local purchases" and not through the official system

the same conditions exist throughout the north east and the whole east coast. one of the leading yr round producers of fresh, vine ripened tomatoes is in Ontario CA

that -incidentally, is one of the main reasons the eastern dairy industry-once fed mainly by family farms, has collapsed

not because the cows couldn't make milk or the farmers stopped milking but because the companies that made the truck runs to pick up the milk found it more profitable to get their raw milk from industrialized farms.

the east is not used because no one big enough is pushing for it to be used-yet

 

[YJ02]

Water rights in that part of the country are insanely contentious. California in particular has a fascinating history with water. Books have been written about the "water wars

in pa and most eastern states ,riparian water rights are nearly innate. in PA the right to clean water is in the Commonwealth's charter.

Any land owner who owns land along any waterway can legally remove water (not divert though) by pumping to use on their land only. so i can pump water fro mthe river out back but it has to be used on my land, by me and i cannot sell it

i dont believe that can be done out west

 

[Overmind One]

so HOW does this help your argument?

the east has plenty of free water falling from the sky as well as abundant surface waters and great aquifers to tap with wells

this is my point; of course cali has some very fertile soil...so does most of north africa and the arabian peninsula. i mean its amazing what a little water can do to places in saudi where it is piped in. but that is the flaw--great soil because it has not been able to grow wild plants for so many yrs that would have tapped the nutrients out of it

the only reason why mass ag in the east is not being done now is because-for now- cali and fla and texas are cheaper places to grow stuff. not because of water; labor is a big part of it

also, over last 100 yrs, many farms in the east were abandoned, returned to a wild state, paved over or had golf course and housing developments on them

the land was more valuable for that then

Cali was designated a bread basket and there were not that many ppl living there then. then that changed mid century. the demand for water has become more and more elevated ; man vs ag vs natural needs (rivers salmon runs ,etc)

there are huge swathes of land in the east that could be put back to ag at an intense level if it would get the backing of BIG FOOD inc and its distribution systems

PA alone produces tons and tons of fresh fruit and veg every yr, it does not get "counted" though as so much of it is independently produced and sold locally through farmers markets or to local groceries and regional food supply systems as "local purchases" and not through the official system

the same conditions exist throughout the north east and the whole east coast. one of the leading yr round producers of fresh, vine ripened tomatoes is in Ontario CA

that -incidentally, is one of the main reasons the eastern dairy industry-once fed mainly by family farms, has collapsed

not because the cows couldn't make milk or the farmers stopped milking but because the companies that made the truck runs to pick up the milk found it more profitable to get their raw milk from industrialized farms.

the east is not used because no one big enough is pushing for it to be used-yet

I am not arguing, I just happen to be from California. I don't have any tribal feelings towards the state at all. It just happens to be what it is. If California food production stopped, the entire nation and some other nations would be impacted severely. Some of the crops grown here represent over 90% of the availability of that crop to the whole nation.

 

[YJ02]

why is the mother jones link "funny"?

its mostly data and charts

 

[YJ02]

Some of the crops grown here represent over 90% of the availability of that crop to the whole nation.

yes, again ,my point not yours !

it is that way because it is allowed to be that way

if the lands of other states with abundant water, were put back to ag use, then any loss of cali ag could be easily overcome

and besides, yet another topic though, do you know how much of that industrially grown produce is thrown away along the supply chain?

 

[PussyGalore]

in pa and most eastern states ,riparian water rights are nearly innate. in PA the right to clean water is in the Commonwealth's charter.

Any land owner who owns land along any waterway can legally remove water (not divert though) by pumping to use on their land only. so i can pump water fro mthe river out back but it has to be used on my land, by me and i cannot sell it

i dont believe that can be done out west

Yeah, it's pretty contentious out west. People have been killed over water rights out there over the years. You've got everything from cattle ranchers to corporate agriculture to urban areas all vying over access to fresh water.

 

[YJ02]

Well, you have a green thumb!

yeah, buty i am in no way the only one

kiwi fruit is also grown on large scale here, as well as tomatoes, peaches, grapes, corn, potatoes

if i and many others can do it fairly easily on a small scale it can most certainly be done on a large scale

http://www.kiwiberry.com/

 

[Overmind One]

Yeah, it's pretty contentious out west. People have been killed over water rights out there over the years. You've got everything from cattle ranchers to corporate agriculture to urban areas all vying over access to fresh water.

Farmers have been killed over secret diversions of irrigation water to other farms. And I don't mean lettuce....