23 and ME

Discussion in 'General Science Discussions' started by yongjin02, Apr 5, 2017.

  1. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    My wife and I and our son (him to help narrow down my wife's father's dna breakdown by % of korean/japanese/chinese/ yakut/ mongol/etc) all did the 23 and me test

    my results are back and surprise, I am 100% european

    shocking :)

    but I wanted to find out info since I have none on my birth father

    seems he was English of some type as well as 'broadly northwest european (basically germanic)

    my mother's-whom i already knew since i grew up calling her my aunt- is confirmed as french/german with a haplogroup found mainly among ppl in alsace lorraine area -among franco-germans, and is in a high occurrence among mennonite and amish families. knew about that family add in as well

    ouside of there, it occurs along the atlantic littoral (northern spain along france into Brittany and ny and normandy and among those thought to be descended from the pre celtic irish and britons. all ppls that are considered white though with dark hair and darker skin then other non mediterranean europeans.

    that haplogroup is J2a1a1b with an age of more then 20,000 yrs

    AND check this out! I have more Neanderthal in me then 98% of the sampled population!!! I always "win" at the strangest things :)

    the highest number of neaderthal variants in the sample population so far is 387, I am at 327

    yikes!!!! or I mean "yabba,dabba,do!"

    upload_2017-4-5_21-47-24.png
     
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  2. Overmind One

    Overmind One GateFans Gatemaster Staff Member

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    So....you are not 100% human. Interesting!
     
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  3. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    nah, they were humans, just a early iteration as well as denisovans, both of whom modern humans interbred with as evidenced by dna

    but, since they were a diff race of humans,an extinct race, then they would be the only ones someone could rally be 'racist' towards, yes?

    can imagine how much more-ahem- "interesting" things would be if neanders and denisovans survived as well? would be a like a star trek scenario where they have more then one race native to a planet


    you should do the test--seeing how you are part european, you may likely have some neander in you as well!!

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    another interesting thing i found

    the results gave me over 1200 realtives out to 3rd cousin and more distant

    going through them all, I have third cousins who share dna from my paternal side-meaning someone in his family had kids with african americans.

    never thought it impossible-that would be absurd in america with our mix, just found it odd that there are so many related to me, WHO ARE NOT related to each other any closer then they are related to me.

    its those damned irish in my father's bloodline i suppose! :)
     
  4. Lord Ba'al

    Lord Ba'al GateFans Member

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    Come on, let's face it my sapientifically challenged friend. Clearly you have a little Dutch in you. They didn't want to tell you and mentioned pretty much all countries around except for the Netherlands, to soften the blow. The epicentre is obviously there.
     
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  5. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    i think they cover the dutch, the walloons, the belgians and the luxemburgians with the whole "broadly northwestern european" thing

    either way you break it down, its all basically some kind of german :)

    what is new and interesting to me is that my father-whom i knew nothing of before- is british/irish with their definition of that being "ppl's of the british isles pre-roman era"

    that and my mtDNA being 'on the fringes of europe' comment on another dna site where they mention my mtDNA haplagroup clings to the edges of europe geographically ranging from those white ' kalash' ppl of nw pakistan (ironically i posted on them in some other thread) and then all the way over to the coastlines of western europe with the main exception being that it tends to be a predominant mtDNA among the amish-which makes sense as there were amish "inputs" into my mother's family tree about 100 yrs ago.

    but yes, the neander thing-in the amount it was, wasn't quite a shock but it is surprising

    be interesting if someday they get more info on what my 'neander dna variants' actually are responsible for in my body
     
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  6. Rac80

    Rac80 The Belle of the Ball

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    I am NOT a fan of this test. What it tracks are traits that are more prevalent in certain areas. Not really "genealogical DNA" certitude. For example say you are a Norwegian, you are just as likely to be told that you are French, English, or Scottish - remember the Norsemen invaded all of those areas. (End rant/)

    I always figured there were several neanderthals here! I agree with OM1, had all three subsets of humans survived it would give a whole new meaning to "racist"!
     
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  7. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    it counts those variables if yo have them

    for example, if you are Norman French person, you test would most likely show (minus any other strays that 'joined' into the line) that you are 'French/German', 'Scandinavian' and most likely 'broadly northwestern european'


    i have watched several ppl on yt with their various companies they used to see which company seemed the best to use-especially for my wife. these ppl make videos of their reveal of their testing

    some ppl just do not get it

    they don't comprhend the inclusiveness of the test that is

    say a person of 'mexican' ethnicity

    i swear they thought the test would show 'mexican' as if that were an actual category of DNA

    of course they are a mix of 'iberian peninsula' and 'native american'. (i was kind of impressed they can distinguish the dna of asian and native american) some had 'north african' as well reflecting those North african descended ppls who inhabited spain as well who converted to catholicism and were heavily recruited by the spanish to go to the new world

    some of the ppl in the vids were apoplectic over this. no comprehension

    ancestry.com test is not as specific though
     
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  8. Overmind One

    Overmind One GateFans Gatemaster Staff Member

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    Neanderthals were not human. There were many many differences which defined them as a distinctly not human species. Those few which managed to interbreed with humans were themselves a very tiny sliver of the Neanderthal population.
     
  9. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    they along with denisovans,are an extinct human species

    everyone of european (including african americans who have european ancestry --psst OM1 :) ) and north asian ancestry has some amount of neanderthal dna in them

    we would not ahve the variations, not just in 'skin deep' visible differences, but in biological diff between ethnicites that we have now had it not been for this interbreeding with neanders, denisovans, and probaly at least 1 or 2 other yet to be discovered species of extinct human

    for example, the generally larger body tyoes of northern europeans would probably not exist in the same ways if it were not for neander input

    Tibetans and those ppl of the Himalayas generally referred to as 'sherpas' have an ability to live and work at high altitudes-to include those altitudes much higher then they normally occupy-without any time needed for adjustment and wit little to no reduction of effectiveness. this was once thought to be a product of conditioning, but then it was also noted that this ability also occurs with their children as well-those who are too young to have been conditioned on the job.

    it has been discovered that they have denisovan dna that has made their blood naturally thinner and that requires less oxygen then other humans. not by much, but by just enough to allow them to function much more effectively then other humans.

    the similar is true in other asian-pacific populations like the Melanesian who also have denisovan dna. these ppl live on the south pacific islands and many have the ability to dive without apparatus for long periods of time. again, this is because of their blood being thinner and requiring less oxygen.

    without these inputs, modern humans today would be a much blander group of people with less diversity and probaby far less resiliency to disease and other issues. We would all be like modern sub saharan africans who have no Neander dna with little to no variations.

    wonder why nearly every european and north asian today has neander dna? what about all of those millions who died out in various plague outbreaks-maybe they didn't have neander dna and therefore, no immunity or resiliency to the plagues? this is not know, i am just speculating. there has to SOME reason why so many ppl died in family groups (unless separated by geography) is straight away after exposure or after a short period of illness while many ppl (the ancestors of all of us) either did not get sick-again in family groups, indicating a DNA passed along trait-at all or recovered.
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    it would not be possible to have a mating viable offspring if homo sapiens bred with a non human species

    each mating encounter that produced a birth-it would have been a one off offspring like the mule- a product of horse and donkey, that cannot reproduce

    that was obv not the case as the dna would have stopped with that one offspring who was non viable for breeding themselves
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    various organizations have been updating their stances in light of recent DNA discoveries

    Remember, ppl used to believe they were little more then gorillas but over time,discoveries of both biological and archaeological natures has revealed that they were indeed far more developed and sophisticated then what was previously thought. this includes the revelation that they probably had a spoken language, performed religious rites of some type, organized into task oriented groups and were quite advanced in the areas of art and their ability to depict themselves as part of their surroundings

    to maintain the stance that Homo Sapiens Sapiens was and is the "only" human is dangerously close to supporting those extreme bible literalists that maintain god created man "As is" in our current developed state (current as in 6,000 yrs ago) not allowing for proper human evolution.

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    smithsonian-- "Neanderthals (the β€˜th’ pronounced as β€˜t’) are our closest extinct human relative"
    http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/species/homo-neanderthalensis

    "Neanderthals (or Neandertals) are our closest extinct human relatives. There is some debate as to whether they were a distinct species of the Homo genus (Homo neanderthalensis) or a subspecies of Homo sapiens. "

    http://www.livescience.com/28036-neanderthals-facts-about-our-extinct-human-relatives.html


    "The Neanderthal or Neandertal was a species of Homo (Homo (sapiens) neanderthalensis) that inhabited Europe and parts of western Asia from about 230,000 to 29,000 years ago, during the Middle Paleolithic period"


    https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/neanderthal.htm
     
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  10. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    also, many ppl who say their families are 'italian' as another example, are defi correct, however, their dna results would probably come back with something like 60% italian with the rest being german due to the heavy settling of Germanic peoples (goths, skirians, etc) in italy after the fall of the roman empire

    a english family tested who beleive they ar 100% "english" would be correct in saying so geographically and culturally but by DNA they would most likely be German/French or Scandinavian because of those germanic invasions/immigrations to Britain

    but you will see many ppl who have no clue that is what it means (poor education i guess) they fully expect that DNA is a measurement of current ethnicity and culture. that how could they be "german" if their family has been in england for 10 generations?

    or even worse was the girl from Haiti whose test showed 90% west african. she cried on video swearing she was Haitian and it wasn't possible she was african!

    the testing is based on population group origins, not current paradigms and places of residence.

    So, rac, your Norwegian, would only show any french, scottish or german descent ("english") if that Norwegian had ancestors who interbred with the conquered population. same with ireland and how so many Irish ppl can't understand why scandinavian shows up in their DNA
     
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  11. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    the wife's test came back

    she is:

    Korean40.6%
    Japanese36.4%
    Chinese11.0%
    Mongolian2.0%
    Yakut< 0.1%
    Broadly East Asian9.8%


    most of these dna testing companies would rather place japanese and korean into one category, but the DNA research academies of both nations would not allow this due to nationalism and issues like the japanese believing they are some mythical "pure" ppl.

    all japanese are korean and koreans are japanese, with the former being older from prehistoric through 1st century AD migrations/trading posts of the three original korean kingdoms, and the latter being more recent due to the japanese annexation of korea from 1910 to 1945

    she was surprised by the chinese (mainly Han) and defi srprised by the mongol and yakut dna. dna that is 'aged' older in her timeline then any of the others. meaning that her mother's family were originally mongol with yakut mix that came to Korea-probably during the Yuan dynasty where Korean nobility was forced to send their daughters to China to marry mongol nobility and Mongol nobility sent their daughters to marry korean men of standing to fulfill the Khan's wish of one ppl/one empire

    the yakut dna really set her a spinning! :)
     
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  12. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    on her dna relatives list-meaning only those 23andme customers who tested, there is a "Grace Park"

    in her profile it says she was born in 1974 in LA
    that she is 5'9" (quite tall for a korean woman) my wife is about 5'7" also tall
    and that she is "active in the public view...enjoys travel and performance art"

    hmm

    given those points and that the euro name "Grace" is not that popular with Koreans because of the "r" which koreans from korea (her parents) try to avoid due to the problems with pronunciation....could my wife be related to the Grace Park?

    just maybe... [​IMG]

    Also of note--my wife is related to a crap load of Korean adoptees. this is one page of her over 200 tested dna relatives-look at all the American names! open them up and they all state they were adopted as babies. Koreans of Korea STILL hold a large stigma on unmarried mothers and their children. if they keep them, they are "encouraged" to go to "special schools" where nearly all of the kids are seen of being of 'low birth'.

    upload_2017-5-11_23-49-43.png
     
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  13. Jim of WVa

    Jim of WVa Well Known GateFan

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    The indigenous people of Japan (Hokkaido, and formerly northeastern Honshu) and Russia (Sakhalin, the Kuril Islands and formerly the Kamchatka Peninsula), the Ainu, are distinct from the ethnic Japanese and Koreans.

     
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  14. yongjin02

    yongjin02 Well Known GateFan

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    since it is a relatively new discovery, I wonder if the Ainu have been tested for Denisovan DNA? It would be interesting to see how much, if any Deni variants they possess.
     
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