Natural vs Artificial: Time, Space and Science

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
This thread was inspired by the Spring Equinox thread here: http://www.gatefans.net/gforums/threads/the-spring-equinox-the-beginning-of-spring.27799/

Gatefan76 pointed out that there are 13 lunar cycles per year, and after looking into it, timekeeping became suddenly crystal clear in terms of the Ancient World. There were no watches, no giant artificial clocks in towers, and no technology to "keep time" as we know it today. But the solar system, indeed the entire galaxy is a clock itself. It cycles with surprising accuracy and predictability. There are exactly thirteen 28-day cycles (13 full moons) per actual year.

From the beginning of this study, I noticed that things began to get out of sync when people started being organized into nations (instead of tribes). Individual families and tribes merely told the time by observing it in the physical world. By noting the positions of constellations and marking positions of the rising (or setting) sun, the time of the year could be determined by an observer. The time of day was easily tracked by observing the cast of a shadow from a natural or artificial sundial.

At some point, Man started messing around with timekeeping, attaching superstitions and political things to it. Today, our calendar and timekeeping solutions are utterly and completely disconnected from the physical reality and natural cycles of "actual" time. We no longer understand that "time" is a construct based upon our existence on THIS planet and it's rotational periods and relationship to other celestial bodies which can be observed from it's surface.

Time exists only as a construct. The continuum of existence is not a set of dates or times, it is an uninterrupted existence and things only SEEM to "move through time". Day and night give the illusion of demarcation as does the sleep cycle. But in reality our existence is in an "always on" mode. The concept of time travel is fantasy.

Lets discuss!

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shavedape

Well Known GateFan
Wow, this is a blast from the past (pardon the time related pun). It's been ages since I read Daniel Boorstin's "The Discoverers" which has a whole section on time and how understanding and "measuring" it developed over the centuries. Hopefully I'm remembering it right as, like I said, it's been ages since I read it. There is a small chance that I'm remembering a different author and book regarding time. Regardless, the topic makes for an interesting study no matter how you slice it.

“The first grand discovery was time, the landscape of experience. Only by marking off months, weeks, and years, days and hours, minutes and seconds, would mankind be liberated from the cyclical monotony of nature. The flow of shadows, sand, and water, and time itself, translated into the clock’s staccato, became a useful measure of man’s movements across the planet. …Communities of time would bring the first communities of knowledge, ways to share discovery, a common frontier on the unknown.”

–Daniel Boorstin, the Discoverers
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Wow, this is a blast from the past (pardon the time related pun). It's been ages since I read Daniel Boorstin's "The Discoverers" which has a whole section on time and how understanding and "measuring" it developed over the centuries. Hopefully I'm remembering it right as, like I said, it's been ages since I read it. There is a small chance that I'm remembering a different author and book regarding time. Regardless, the topic makes for an interesting study no matter how you slice it.

“The first grand discovery was time, the landscape of experience. Only by marking off months, weeks, and years, days and hours, minutes and seconds, would mankind be liberated from the cyclical monotony of nature. The flow of shadows, sand, and water, and time itself, translated into the clock’s staccato, became a useful measure of man’s movements across the planet. …Communities of time would bring the first communities of knowledge, ways to share discovery, a common frontier on the unknown.”

–Daniel Boorstin, the Discoverers

Daylight savings is the most ridiculous recent layer placed on "modern" timekeeping. Invented purely to enhance work productivity for farmers, and to enhance profitability for retailers in capitalistic countries.
 

shavedape

Well Known GateFan
Daylight savings is the most ridiculous recent layer placed on "modern" timekeeping. Invented purely to enhance work productivity for farmers, and to enhance profitability for retailers in capitalistic countries.

It needs to be abolished post haste.
 

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
Daylight savings is the most ridiculous recent layer placed on "modern" timekeeping. Invented purely to enhance work productivity for farmers, and to enhance profitability for retailers in capitalistic countries.

Farmers loathe DST.
In modern times it was used to save on energy and coal use in WW1 by not wasting the hour of natural light when people would still be asleep.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
Farmers loathe DST.
In modern times it was used to save on energy and coal use in WW1 by not wasting the hour of natural light when people would still be asleep.

It could be argued that zones not having DST allow people to be more aware of the time of year as a result of experiencing darkness in the morning, and/or light further into the evening. Experiencing this from childhood would increase curiosity about why the sun rises in certain spots and sets in certain spots year after year. The tracking of shadows and marking of sunrises gives meaning to the longer or shorter days and nights. Technology has disconnected us from that awareness in a big way. Arizona and Hawaii and Puerto Rico do not observe DST.
 

Gatefan1976

Well Known GateFan
You guys got it in the 70's due to the energy crisis back then.
It is bullshit though, I agree with you and ape, it needs to go.
 

Rac80

The Belle of the Ball
Farmers loathe DST.
In modern times it was used to save on energy and coal use in WW1 by not wasting the hour of natural light when people would still be asleep.


here in the states too - Indiana finally went on DST in 2005 and it's still considered "controversial"...:facepalm: Indiana needed to stay in one time zone to be able to more efficiently conduct business, etc. It used to drive my elderly mom crazy trying to figure out what time zone we were in (eastern time for /12 the year, then central time for the other 1/2) . I really don't care abt DST but you can't constantly say yes we have DST then change your minds a few years later. Indiana actually observed it until the 1970's then got rid of it - went to eastern time zone year around and have now re-instituted it. The debate here should be are we in the eastern time zone or the central time zone.

Actually there is a law called the Uniform Time Act pf 1966 that is administered by the USDOT (dept. of transportation) that areas must get exemptions from to not observe DST. amazing what the go'vt has to meddle in isn't it?


as to time as a construct...It totally puzzles me - seems like just a few days ago snookie was 4 and I was a young mom of 24, then she was 16 and I was 36 - I refuse to admit she's 32 and I'm 52 :P It sure is true that time really flies when you are having a good time.
 

Overmind One

GateFans Gatemaster
Staff member
here in the states too - Indiana finally went on DST in 2005 and it's still considered "controversial"...:facepalm: Indiana needed to stay in one time zone to be able to more efficiently conduct business, etc. It used to drive my elderly mom crazy trying to figure out what time zone we were in (eastern time for /12 the year, then central time for the other 1/2) . I really don't care abt DST but you can't constantly say yes we have DST then change your minds a few years later. Indiana actually observed it until the 1970's then got rid of it - went to eastern time zone year around and have now re-instituted it. The debate here should be are we in the eastern time zone or the central time zone.

Actually there is a law called the Uniform Time Act pf 1966 that is administered by the USDOT (dept. of transportation) that areas must get exemptions from to not observe DST. amazing what the go'vt has to meddle in isn't it?


as to time as a construct...It totally puzzles me - seems like just a few days ago snookie was 4 and I was a young mom of 24, then she was 16 and I was 36 - I refuse to admit she's 32 and I'm 52 :P It sure is true that time really flies when you are having a good time.

Every form of life punctuates existence with periods of non-activity (sleep). The perception we get is that there are separate "days" and "nights" but in reality there is just the continuum of rotation on this ball of dirt around the Sun which is always shining even when the side of the planet we are on at any time is in darkness. Most all of us in the developed world have been disconnected from the natural cycles our bodies are programmed to respond to (except women, whose menstrual cycles are closely tied to the cycles of the Moon). Humans used to rise with the sun and sleep at sundown.
 

Tripler

Well Known GateFan
Ummm , not sure were else to post this but have a listen ... Kinda solar related on time and events of the past and future and hopefully not true ...

 
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