Apple's new key design is comical...

[Joelist]

I got a chance to try typing on one of the new Macbook Pros, which now use the same keyboard design as the Macbook. Here is a partial picture:

I don't know if the picture shows this, but the distance from top of key to the keyboard surface is only about 1mm. This means these keys have a VERY shallow travel. Combine that with the usual Apple flat tops and it is a recipe for constant typos.

Why can't they leave well enough alone? To put it lightly Lenovo ThinkPads still have far and away the best typing experience. Apple's actually got worse.

 

[Overmind One]

I got a chance to try typing on one of the new Macbook Pros, which now use the same keyboard design as the Macbook. Here is a partial picture:

View attachment 33359

I don't know if the picture shows this, but the distance from top of key to the keyboard surface is only about 1mm. This means these keys have a VERY shallow travel. Combine that with the usual Apple flat tops and it is a recipe for constant typos.

Why can't they leave well enough alone? To put it lightly Lenovo ThinkPads still have far and away the best typing experience. Apple's actually got worse.

The answer: Cost.

They can use the same keyboard on the Pro, the Macbook and the Mac Pro and manufacture it for cheaper. Nothing changes at Apple.

 

[Joelist]

That's the funny part - this keyboard design isn't cheaper - the custom rockers under the keys actually cost more. I think they are falling in love with their own designs too much, and ignoring that one reason the Macbook has not sold super well has been the poor keyboard experience.

 

[Lord Ba'al]

Pfffft... Apple crap. He who owns an Apple and swears it is the best thing ever is an absolute moron.

 

[Joelist]

I can't deny that the machines are well built, and recently they have been better at not always being 12+ months behind on the tech in them. But yes, I think to a lot of people owning an Apple is a "style" thing, and they don't give much thought to functionality, power and such. Well, I do.

 

[Lord Ba'al]

Don't get me wrong. It's fine to own Apple products. It's also fine to like Apple products. But being an Apple fanboi is not okay.

Speaking from the perspective of someone who works fulltime in first line customer and technical support, if you are using our shit and it has been working fine for years and then Apple brings out an update and suddenly that shit don't work no more for any Apple user, then why the fuck are you calling me? Why don't you fucking call Apple?

You know what I mean? Those people bug the shit out of me.

 

[Joelist]

I understand completely. Alas users (especially Apple bots) tend not to be able to distinguish between the hardware, the operating system and software running on the operating system.

 

[Lord Ba'al]

I understand completely. Alas users (especially Apple bots) tend not to be able to distinguish between the hardware, the operating system and software running on the operating system.

Indeed!

 

[Joelist]

I am having to use one of these as my primary driver due to my usual machine having an unintended meeting with a large, heavy object :S

The screen is beautiful, the speed is impressive but the typing experience is nightmarish. I have to keep my eyes on the keyboard all the time because the super shallow travel makes using this thing almost like using the on screen touch keyboard on a tablet.

I can't wait until I can work a replacement and get back on a ThinkPad!

 

[Overmind One]

I am having to use one of these as my primary driver due to my usual machine having an unintended meeting with a large, heavy object :S

The screen is beautiful, the speed is impressive but the typing experience is nightmarish. I have to keep my eyes on the keyboard all the time because the super shallow travel makes using this thing almost like using the on screen touch keyboard on a tablet.

I can't wait until I can work a replacement and get back on a ThinkPad!

Our company has a ThinkPad ecosystem, along with ThinkCentre (All in Ones), and ThinkVision monitors. Lenovo is GREAT for business. For the high end, we use Surface Pros and unfortunately MacBook Pros. We are using NoMAD and JSS/Casper to manage them on the domain which makes them able to be controlled by policies. But, of course NoMAD was not developed by Apple. Now, the issue is USB3 and attaching monitors and 3rd party peripherals like sketch pads and certain video devices. .

I am still hating on Apple, sorry!

 

[Lord Ba'al]

Hate on Apple all you like. I tend to agree with what you say about them. And speaking from my years of experience as a customer support and tech support agent, I can tell you that in general the Apple users are not the brightest bunch when it comes to technology and yet the most demanding, arrogant and also stubborn.

No offense to anyone here.

 

[Tripler]

 

[Tripler]

 

[Overmind One]

Apple loyalists are truly a clueless bunch.

 

[Tripler]

 

[Tripler]

 

[Tripler]

 

[Joelist]

Yep. Basically you need either Apple or an Apple Authorized service place to repair the newer Macs. Once they brought Secure Enclave and T2 to the MacBooks it was inevitable because of how those pieces operate.

 

[Overmind One]

Yep. Basically you need either Apple or an Apple Authorized service place to repair the newer Macs. Once they brought Secure Enclave and T2 to the MacBooks it was inevitable because of how those pieces operate.

Apple is doing the equivalent of tribal nationalism with it's products, gaining control of the entire infrastructure connected to Apple product ownership. Repairs, parts manufacturers, sales, software, music, peripherals, etc. Millennials are not going to support this type of product model. I predict they will abanson Apple en masse the moment they come out with a product that slams them like the iPhone X and Apple Watch (not success stories!). Arbitrarily obsoleting dongles, removing basics like the earphone jack, none of that is cool for a company built on Cool. Abercrombie & Fitch was cool, until it wasn't. Same with the Prius. No longer a sales juggernaut. The moment a Millennial who has dropped their iPhone and cracked the screen can no longer go to a repair shop or buy screens from third parties, they will go to a different make of phone. As soon as a musician or other creative finds that their expensive peripheral no longer works with Mojave (even on a Mac which previously supported it), they will switch to a PC. It is already happening.

 

[Joelist]

It’s more the nature of the T2 and the Secure Enclave than any tribal thing they may want I think. The T2 is a separate processor and it runs off the Secure Enclave which is separate memory physically not accessible from the main CPU or RAM. It’s also. Used on iPhones and iPads, and is where Apple stashes sensitive encrypted info like biometrics and Apple Pay information. And both require a very specific custom motherboard with the parts all matched to the T2, hence the restriction.

I think the part where they aim to be “cool” is where this comes from more, as really no other laptop has implemented this sort of hardware based security and one could argue it is over the top.